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[projector clicking]
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Downloaded from
YTS.MX
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[♪]
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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[♪]
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[man]
I had a bad feeling about it.
7
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My wife did. She didn't even
know what we was gonna do.
8
00:00:51,291 --> 00:00:53,955
She begged me not to leave
the house that day.
9
00:00:54,724 --> 00:00:57,895
Got in front of me at the door,
pullin' on me, crying.
10
00:00:58,063 --> 00:00:59,727
I said, "I'll be right back."
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00:01:04,069 --> 00:01:06,503
That was my last warning.
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[traffic noise]
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[man 2]
Wintertime. January.
14
00:01:19,447 --> 00:01:21,155
A very cold Friday night.
15
00:01:24,256 --> 00:01:26,193
Two guys walk over to
the counter,
16
00:01:27,262 --> 00:01:30,423
ask me to pick up something
from the bottom shelf,
17
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I don't remember what it was.
18
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I picked it up
and when I stood up,
19
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the guy had a...
20
00:01:37,498 --> 00:01:40,031
.25 automatic pointed at me.
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Right on the gun counter
there was
22
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a picture of my daughter
receiving her communion.
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I says, "Take it easy,
24
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I want to get home to see
my family tonight."
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00:01:55,186 --> 00:01:56,815
The little guy had a handgun.
26
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I'm lookin' at the gun
and I'm sayin' to myself
27
00:01:59,522 --> 00:02:03,395
that I thought it was
a pellet gun.
28
00:02:04,628 --> 00:02:06,662
Then he pulls the trigger
and, bang, into--
29
00:02:07,868 --> 00:02:09,295
and into the shelf.
30
00:02:09,698 --> 00:02:13,006
I swore to myself
at that point there
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00:02:13,342 --> 00:02:16,376
that if I get
a chance to kill ya,
I'm gonna kill ya.
32
00:02:17,112 --> 00:02:19,136
-[indistinct chatter]
-[sirens wailing]
33
00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,351
[man on bullhorn]
Come out with your hands up!
34
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[sirens wailing]
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[gunshots]
36
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[man on radio]
Okay, hold it!
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[man]
Get outta here quick!
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[gunshot]
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[♪]
40
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[reporter]
A story of violence
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00:02:50,905 --> 00:02:53,610
inside a sporting goods store
in Brooklyn.
42
00:02:53,645 --> 00:02:56,310
Four terrorists had been
surprised inside the store
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00:02:56,345 --> 00:02:57,812
on Friday afternoon
44
00:02:57,847 --> 00:03:02,014
when police arrived in response
to a robbery alarm.
45
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[man]
It was a store with
outdoors equipment
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00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,121
the usual camping stuff,
47
00:03:06,157 --> 00:03:07,952
and then the guns.
48
00:03:07,988 --> 00:03:10,392
The guns are what it was
really all about.
49
00:03:10,428 --> 00:03:12,155
They were people
who wanted them,
50
00:03:12,191 --> 00:03:14,197
and they took innocent people
inside the store
51
00:03:14,232 --> 00:03:15,632
and made hostages of them.
52
00:03:17,902 --> 00:03:20,135
[♪]
53
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[man]
Holy crap.
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00:03:21,507 --> 00:03:23,711
Twelve hostages inside
a sporting goods store
55
00:03:23,746 --> 00:03:25,202
loaded with firearms.
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00:03:26,573 --> 00:03:28,572
This was the Titanic.
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00:03:28,607 --> 00:03:29,778
The moon landing.
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00:03:31,185 --> 00:03:33,320
I'm never gonna forget
the siege.
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00:03:34,289 --> 00:03:37,823
It's permanently etched
in your-- in your heart
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00:03:37,858 --> 00:03:38,886
and in your soul.
61
00:03:41,897 --> 00:03:43,787
The lessons learned of this case
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00:03:44,023 --> 00:03:46,498
were so revolutionary for
law enforcement.
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00:03:47,728 --> 00:03:50,771
Out of this tragedy,
amazingly,
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00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,308
this is the birthplace of
hostage negotiation.
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[man]
It's scary.
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00:03:58,476 --> 00:04:01,414
So cops usually wind up
overreacting.
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00:04:03,214 --> 00:04:04,649
Police want to be macho.
68
00:04:05,285 --> 00:04:07,854
Lob in the gas
and storm the place.
69
00:04:08,090 --> 00:04:10,181
"Kill 'em all!
They're all evil."
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00:04:12,323 --> 00:04:15,062
No. I believe in talking.
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00:04:15,097 --> 00:04:17,463
Everything is resolvable
by talking.
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00:04:29,070 --> 00:04:31,939
[Jerry Riccio]
The leader,
he wanted five shotguns.
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00:04:32,838 --> 00:04:34,277
They gave me a duffel bag.
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00:04:34,613 --> 00:04:36,950
12-guage ammo in the bag,
I'm filling it up,
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00:04:36,985 --> 00:04:38,484
filling it up and filling up.
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00:04:39,452 --> 00:04:41,048
And I turned around,
I said to him, I says,
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00:04:41,083 --> 00:04:43,951
"Can I ask you a question now?
Who's gonna carry this bag?"
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Couldn't even drag it.
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00:04:47,195 --> 00:04:48,626
He says,
"You just keep filling it."
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00:04:49,794 --> 00:04:53,227
I filled it up, the guy
grabbed it by the handle.
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00:04:53,263 --> 00:04:54,328
Can't move it.
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00:04:54,430 --> 00:04:55,732
You're not too smart.
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00:04:56,528 --> 00:04:59,571
[♪]
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00:05:00,673 --> 00:05:02,899
The only thing that stopped them
from gettin' out is
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00:05:02,934 --> 00:05:05,137
someone outside called the cops.
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00:05:07,842 --> 00:05:10,241
There was a cop
lookin' in the doorway.
87
00:05:10,985 --> 00:05:12,481
When he seen the rifles,
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00:05:12,683 --> 00:05:14,982
the guys eyeballs,
I'll never forget it.
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00:05:16,486 --> 00:05:17,681
[man]
"Call for backup.
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00:05:17,883 --> 00:05:19,558
"Patrol units responding.
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00:05:20,456 --> 00:05:21,894
"Call on walkie-talkie.
92
00:05:22,029 --> 00:05:23,322
N-[bleep] with a gun."
93
00:05:23,792 --> 00:05:27,097
This had to be terrifying
for her
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00:05:27,632 --> 00:05:29,700
to have to go through
something like that.
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00:05:31,999 --> 00:05:34,738
For my mother to hear
the cop say that.
96
00:05:36,042 --> 00:05:38,071
To fear the cops.
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00:05:38,970 --> 00:05:40,540
She probably didn't even know
98
00:05:40,576 --> 00:05:42,048
guns was in that building.
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00:05:42,083 --> 00:05:43,615
She wouldn't have gone in there.
100
00:05:44,810 --> 00:05:46,378
My dad needed a wallet.
101
00:05:47,148 --> 00:05:49,181
John & Al is right when you
come off the train.
102
00:05:51,421 --> 00:05:53,086
My mother paid for it.
103
00:05:53,829 --> 00:05:55,152
Few more seconds,
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00:05:55,187 --> 00:05:58,729
my mother would have
walked out that door.
105
00:06:01,393 --> 00:06:04,867
The gunmen locked the door right
in front of her face.
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00:06:05,666 --> 00:06:07,133
That's what it was.
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00:06:08,667 --> 00:06:10,037
A wallet.
108
00:06:12,512 --> 00:06:14,915
So we had white police officers,
mostly, uh,
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00:06:14,950 --> 00:06:16,282
on the inner perimeter.
110
00:06:16,584 --> 00:06:19,585
So that might have been
some considerations as well.
111
00:06:20,787 --> 00:06:23,890
We thought we had four members
of the Black Liberation Army
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00:06:23,925 --> 00:06:25,052
inside the store.
113
00:06:25,918 --> 00:06:27,589
It was a very radical group,
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very violent
and dangerous group.
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00:06:29,388 --> 00:06:32,059
Many police officer
assassinations under their belt.
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Emotions are running high.
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[man] The BLA was ambushing
the police officers.
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00:06:39,298 --> 00:06:41,574
You had a blue uniform on,
you were a target.
119
00:06:43,142 --> 00:06:44,445
I was a rookie.
120
00:06:45,214 --> 00:06:47,008
I remember
like it was yesterday.
121
00:06:48,746 --> 00:06:51,177
You're dealing with lowlifes
that don't care.
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00:06:52,988 --> 00:06:54,312
They hate the police.
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00:06:55,581 --> 00:06:57,590
No.
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00:06:58,588 --> 00:06:59,922
They didn't know who we were.
125
00:07:01,491 --> 00:07:03,262
I don't dislike police.
126
00:07:03,498 --> 00:07:05,596
They thought all this
crazy stuff about us.
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00:07:05,631 --> 00:07:07,963
They thought we were
black revolutionaries.
128
00:07:08,265 --> 00:07:09,365
We were not.
129
00:07:09,935 --> 00:07:12,968
I worked for the Transit,
selling tokens in the booth.
130
00:07:14,136 --> 00:07:18,204
Dawud is a college student,
outstanding artist.
131
00:07:19,413 --> 00:07:22,175
Salih is a TV and
radio repairman.
132
00:07:23,612 --> 00:07:25,444
Mussidiq is a carpenter.
133
00:07:25,947 --> 00:07:28,252
We're not unemployed,
dope fiends,
134
00:07:28,287 --> 00:07:29,952
and thieves and crooks.
135
00:07:32,257 --> 00:07:33,692
We're squares.
136
00:07:37,427 --> 00:07:39,533
I was terrified.
137
00:07:41,270 --> 00:07:43,799
I was like an understudy
to Shu'aib.
138
00:07:43,835 --> 00:07:46,464
You know, he was like
my mentor at the time.
139
00:07:46,666 --> 00:07:47,935
You know.
140
00:07:47,970 --> 00:07:50,574
He was living on his own,
you know, I--
141
00:07:50,810 --> 00:07:54,347
With his wife, you know,
I was still with my mother,
142
00:07:54,549 --> 00:07:58,310
using his situation as
an example to follow.
143
00:08:01,523 --> 00:08:04,383
On the way there, I was hoping
somebody would,
144
00:08:04,852 --> 00:08:06,755
like, just say, okay, like...
145
00:08:07,190 --> 00:08:10,487
maybe we should, like, just
scrap this and like, but, uh--
146
00:08:11,798 --> 00:08:13,924
I didn't-- I couldn't come up
with any, you know,
147
00:08:13,959 --> 00:08:15,866
alternative solution,
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00:08:15,901 --> 00:08:19,001
so I just, more or less,
went along with it, you know?
149
00:08:20,006 --> 00:08:23,038
[♪]
150
00:08:24,573 --> 00:08:26,008
A lot of regrets.
151
00:08:30,377 --> 00:08:34,016
I observed one police officer
in front of the store.
152
00:08:34,986 --> 00:08:37,048
You don't need to take it
any further, you know,
153
00:08:37,084 --> 00:08:38,922
they're-- they're here,
you know,
154
00:08:39,754 --> 00:08:41,285
we-- we're through.
155
00:08:41,421 --> 00:08:43,995
You know, we should have
surrendered at that time,
156
00:08:44,031 --> 00:08:46,061
but, uh...
157
00:08:46,096 --> 00:08:49,361
my co-defendants tried to make
an exit from the store.
158
00:08:50,768 --> 00:08:52,639
That's when things
went haywire.
159
00:08:55,676 --> 00:08:57,473
[Shu'aib Raheem]
We made that fateful decision.
160
00:08:57,842 --> 00:09:01,076
To get these guns.
To protect our families.
161
00:09:01,878 --> 00:09:03,647
In retrospect,
it was a fool's idea
162
00:09:03,682 --> 00:09:05,743
to think we can get out
the back door.
163
00:09:05,779 --> 00:09:07,581
[door opening]
164
00:09:07,617 --> 00:09:09,089
We opened the door.
165
00:09:09,124 --> 00:09:11,015
[indistinct shouting]
166
00:09:11,050 --> 00:09:13,121
There were cops everywhere.
167
00:09:14,129 --> 00:09:16,062
[indistinct shouting]
168
00:09:16,564 --> 00:09:18,429
Super hyper.
Payin' attention to everybody.
169
00:09:18,464 --> 00:09:19,557
Lookin' there, lookin' there.
170
00:09:20,293 --> 00:09:21,661
Who's the good guy?
Who's the bad guy?
171
00:09:21,696 --> 00:09:22,897
Who do you trust?
172
00:09:22,932 --> 00:09:24,537
How you gonna say,
"Drop the weapon,"
173
00:09:24,572 --> 00:09:26,197
but when you go to drop it,
they tell you,
174
00:09:26,232 --> 00:09:28,100
"Don't move. Freeze.
Drop the weapon.
175
00:09:28,136 --> 00:09:30,243
Don't move. Freeze.
Hand me the gun."
176
00:09:30,379 --> 00:09:32,639
You know, I mean--
What do you do?
177
00:09:33,275 --> 00:09:36,344
I'm ready to surrender.
You won't let me surrender.
178
00:09:36,947 --> 00:09:39,620
That was how we perceived
the situation.
179
00:09:42,784 --> 00:09:44,450
I'm trying to comply,
180
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,487
passing off my rifle
to this detective.
181
00:09:49,257 --> 00:09:51,830
The other officers
interpreted it as a threat
182
00:09:52,830 --> 00:09:54,591
because they told me
not to move.
183
00:09:57,166 --> 00:10:00,168
That's what led to them
firing the first shot.
184
00:10:01,606 --> 00:10:03,275
Does it matter who fired first?
185
00:10:03,310 --> 00:10:04,441
There are some people
186
00:10:04,477 --> 00:10:05,940
that need a damn beating.
187
00:10:05,975 --> 00:10:08,107
You know why?
You can't talk to 'em.
188
00:10:08,143 --> 00:10:09,548
You talk 'til you're
blue in the face.
189
00:10:09,583 --> 00:10:11,883
They want
a physical confrontation.
190
00:10:12,946 --> 00:10:14,419
That's what they want.
191
00:10:14,454 --> 00:10:15,715
And that's their mentality.
192
00:10:16,250 --> 00:10:18,450
And a guy like that
needs his ass kicked.
193
00:10:22,621 --> 00:10:27,466
New York City's always had
a hard, ugly relationship
194
00:10:27,502 --> 00:10:29,564
between the police
and the people--
195
00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:30,837
community of color.
196
00:10:31,606 --> 00:10:34,840
All my life,
police was killing black people.
197
00:10:37,378 --> 00:10:39,306
I know-- I know for a fact...
198
00:10:40,006 --> 00:10:41,748
that cops aren't racist.
199
00:10:43,813 --> 00:10:46,678
Yet, there was this perception
200
00:10:47,314 --> 00:10:49,888
that cops are gonna
brutalize Blacks.
201
00:10:51,955 --> 00:10:53,859
The police were seen
as oppressors.
202
00:10:55,293 --> 00:10:56,356
Corrupt.
203
00:10:56,822 --> 00:10:57,897
Brutal.
204
00:10:58,900 --> 00:11:00,959
[Jack Cambria]
The police officer's stress
is elevated
205
00:11:00,994 --> 00:11:02,334
'cause you're always on.
206
00:11:02,803 --> 00:11:04,931
When emotional levels are up
in-- in a person,
207
00:11:05,133 --> 00:11:07,064
then their rationality level
is down.
208
00:11:07,300 --> 00:11:09,373
It's kinda like
that angle effect.
209
00:11:09,475 --> 00:11:11,338
Emotion. Rationality.
210
00:11:12,978 --> 00:11:16,715
Police officers become,
sometimes, judge, jury,
211
00:11:16,817 --> 00:11:19,386
and, uh, sometimes when
the circumstances, uh,
212
00:11:19,421 --> 00:11:21,120
you know,
present themselves,
213
00:11:21,155 --> 00:11:22,250
executioner.
214
00:11:24,089 --> 00:11:27,354
There's this whiteness
on the police department,
215
00:11:27,922 --> 00:11:29,787
not properly trained,
216
00:11:30,256 --> 00:11:31,960
fearful of being
in neighborhoods
217
00:11:31,995 --> 00:11:33,961
that they're not
accustomed to being in.
218
00:11:34,063 --> 00:11:36,100
And so, in that
sporting goods store,
219
00:11:36,836 --> 00:11:38,970
when they see
a black man in a doorway...
220
00:11:41,573 --> 00:11:43,106
emotions take over.
221
00:11:43,771 --> 00:11:46,043
[gunshots]
222
00:11:48,249 --> 00:11:50,683
[Jerry Riccio]
The cops' bullets are
pockmarking against the building
223
00:11:50,718 --> 00:11:52,813
and I'm sayin', "Oh, my God,
oh, my God,"
224
00:11:52,849 --> 00:11:55,151
like I-- I gotta get hit.
225
00:11:58,352 --> 00:12:00,420
From where they were shooting,
it wasn't...
226
00:12:02,461 --> 00:12:03,755
less than 15 feet.
227
00:12:03,791 --> 00:12:05,260
[gunshots]
228
00:12:05,295 --> 00:12:07,460
When one guy starts shootin',
they all start shootin'.
229
00:12:08,565 --> 00:12:09,594
You're nuts.
230
00:12:10,965 --> 00:12:12,465
Firing away like crazy.
231
00:12:13,641 --> 00:12:15,567
And the little guy
pulls me back,
232
00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:17,804
he steps up and fires.
233
00:12:18,239 --> 00:12:20,743
You could feel the heat
against my ribs.
234
00:12:20,778 --> 00:12:23,040
-[gunshot]
-[traffic noise]
235
00:12:23,075 --> 00:12:25,041
[tires squealing]
236
00:12:25,077 --> 00:12:27,117
[siren wailing]
237
00:12:31,252 --> 00:12:33,519
I reached out
and pulled the door in.
238
00:12:35,496 --> 00:12:37,325
It was a miracle I wasn't hit.
239
00:12:38,425 --> 00:12:40,693
Mussidiq was just standing there
in shock.
240
00:12:40,995 --> 00:12:42,660
I lifted his shirt up.
241
00:12:43,570 --> 00:12:45,333
My hand was covered with blood.
242
00:12:46,169 --> 00:12:49,172
Stomach wound,
there's nothin' you can do.
243
00:12:50,669 --> 00:12:52,813
If he didn't get attention,
he was gonna die.
244
00:12:55,073 --> 00:12:57,114
[gunshots]
245
00:12:57,847 --> 00:12:59,710
[indistinct shouting]
246
00:13:01,849 --> 00:13:04,022
[gunshots]
247
00:13:04,825 --> 00:13:08,128
Bullets was flyin'
all over the store.
248
00:13:08,297 --> 00:13:09,787
All over the store.
249
00:13:10,589 --> 00:13:13,630
The police knew
they were hostages in there
250
00:13:13,666 --> 00:13:15,627
and they-- and they, uh--
251
00:13:15,663 --> 00:13:19,302
they elevated their fire to
above the hostages' heads.
252
00:13:19,338 --> 00:13:20,501
No.
253
00:13:20,970 --> 00:13:23,005
They-- That's the first thing
254
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,841
one of the officers said
afterwards.
255
00:13:25,876 --> 00:13:27,480
"Well, we were shooting high."
256
00:13:27,849 --> 00:13:29,646
I says, "You can tell that
to somebody else,
257
00:13:29,682 --> 00:13:30,851
you can't tell it to me."
258
00:13:31,981 --> 00:13:33,443
The cops know there's customers,
259
00:13:33,479 --> 00:13:35,251
and you're shooting into
the store.
260
00:13:35,786 --> 00:13:36,915
What are they, crazy?
261
00:13:37,684 --> 00:13:40,487
Here's my head.
Here's where the bullet
was hitting.
262
00:13:41,322 --> 00:13:43,089
The police department
won't admit to
263
00:13:43,124 --> 00:13:44,690
a lot of things that they did.
264
00:13:45,626 --> 00:13:49,199
I was with Steve Gilroy.
He was my partner that night.
265
00:13:50,065 --> 00:13:51,498
He was a great guy to be with.
266
00:13:52,298 --> 00:13:53,567
He was behind the L pillar.
267
00:13:53,736 --> 00:13:55,766
[gunshots]
268
00:14:00,883 --> 00:14:03,041
I looked over, I saw Steve
laying on the ground.
269
00:14:03,077 --> 00:14:04,975
[gunshots continue]
270
00:14:05,011 --> 00:14:07,514
He was hit in
the back of his head,
which opened up his skull.
271
00:14:09,990 --> 00:14:12,090
I saw part of his brain
separate from his head.
272
00:14:17,892 --> 00:14:19,933
[crackling]
273
00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:26,940
[clock ticking]
274
00:14:33,778 --> 00:14:37,247
[Al Sheppard]
You grieve for the guy that
gets killed or hurt, God forbid.
275
00:14:38,283 --> 00:14:40,383
And then you want to go
fuck somebody up over it.
276
00:14:40,585 --> 00:14:42,212
The bad guy.
277
00:14:42,248 --> 00:14:44,287
[indistinct chatter]
278
00:14:48,128 --> 00:14:50,394
Anybody in the ghetto knows,
if you shoot a cop,
279
00:14:50,630 --> 00:14:51,725
they're gonna get you.
280
00:14:52,027 --> 00:14:54,066
[police radio chatter]
281
00:14:58,769 --> 00:15:00,798
[sirens wailing]
282
00:15:06,605 --> 00:15:08,311
[Shu'aib Raheem]
Salih found the radio...
283
00:15:10,110 --> 00:15:11,413
and turned it on.
284
00:15:12,950 --> 00:15:14,420
We were all listening to it.
285
00:15:15,290 --> 00:15:18,283
And they said,
"We have four members of
the Black Liberation Army
286
00:15:18,318 --> 00:15:19,960
surrounded inside a store."
287
00:15:25,292 --> 00:15:27,924
Oh, S-H-I-T, that's what.
288
00:15:29,128 --> 00:15:30,498
Oh, crap!
289
00:15:32,167 --> 00:15:34,532
[indistinct radio transmission]
290
00:15:34,567 --> 00:15:36,306
I know
how they were thinkin' now.
291
00:15:37,269 --> 00:15:38,605
They wanted blood.
292
00:15:40,008 --> 00:15:41,509
I was petrified.
293
00:15:43,118 --> 00:15:46,679
But I was gonna experience
something much worse than that.
294
00:15:47,684 --> 00:15:49,286
[static]
295
00:15:49,321 --> 00:15:53,059
We heard it on the radio
that we had inside the store.
296
00:15:53,094 --> 00:15:55,718
[radio announcer]
ABC News, Brooklyn, New York.
297
00:15:55,753 --> 00:15:57,590
What happened here
was a tragedy.
298
00:15:57,626 --> 00:16:00,798
One gunman was wounded,
apparently seriously.
299
00:16:00,833 --> 00:16:02,563
One policeman was killed.
300
00:16:07,369 --> 00:16:09,867
It was a stunned silence
at first.
301
00:16:11,776 --> 00:16:14,137
Then it was...
302
00:16:14,172 --> 00:16:15,411
shock.
303
00:16:16,375 --> 00:16:18,183
Everything changed.
304
00:16:19,679 --> 00:16:21,852
We didn't even know
a cop was even killed.
305
00:16:22,221 --> 00:16:25,784
If you are responsible for
a chain of events
306
00:16:25,820 --> 00:16:29,327
that culminated in the loss
of life of a human being,
307
00:16:30,029 --> 00:16:32,395
there's no way to
replace that life.
308
00:16:33,668 --> 00:16:36,193
I'ma have to carry this sin.
309
00:16:36,695 --> 00:16:38,929
Man, I cried like a baby
in the bathroom.
310
00:16:40,904 --> 00:16:42,270
After he shot him,
311
00:16:42,305 --> 00:16:44,302
I think he said,
"I killed that pig.
312
00:16:44,337 --> 00:16:46,204
"I-- I offed that pig.
313
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,374
If he sticks his head out again,
I'm gonna-- I'm gonna kill him."
314
00:16:49,477 --> 00:16:51,509
And stuck his head out,
shot him.
315
00:16:51,545 --> 00:16:53,443
"I got that pig,
I killed that pig.
316
00:16:53,478 --> 00:16:54,582
Shot him in the head."
317
00:16:55,824 --> 00:16:57,487
[Shu'aib Raheem]
That was never said.
318
00:16:57,522 --> 00:17:01,094
I was talking about
a different officer
who shot at me.
319
00:17:02,263 --> 00:17:04,788
I said, "Man, there's this guy
across the street, hold up."
320
00:17:04,823 --> 00:17:07,760
You know, I-- Pew!
And he took off and ran.
321
00:17:08,898 --> 00:17:10,195
[exhales]
322
00:17:11,031 --> 00:17:14,366
Well, that comment,
"I'm gonna get this guy
behind the pole,"
323
00:17:14,401 --> 00:17:18,243
is what they tried to say,
that the comment was made
when Mr. Gilroy was killed.
324
00:17:19,045 --> 00:17:21,042
I still don't know
how he got hit.
325
00:17:21,077 --> 00:17:22,509
We were hunkered down.
326
00:17:22,544 --> 00:17:25,316
The van blocked
that whole line of sight.
327
00:17:26,219 --> 00:17:30,921
I can only imagine
it was some type of ricochet
328
00:17:30,956 --> 00:17:33,258
or whatever, or friendly fire.
329
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:37,295
I didn't have the right angle
to see him.
330
00:17:39,396 --> 00:17:41,959
I could only see the bar
called the Oasis.
331
00:17:43,268 --> 00:17:45,105
The cops were shooting
all over the place.
332
00:17:47,572 --> 00:17:49,670
[Shu'aib Raheem]
He was shot in
the side of the head.
333
00:17:50,536 --> 00:17:51,969
Where'd that shot come from?
334
00:17:54,406 --> 00:17:56,074
I don't know...
335
00:17:56,109 --> 00:17:57,579
[sighs]
336
00:17:59,213 --> 00:18:00,483
...what happened.
337
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:02,947
It don't really matter.
338
00:18:05,484 --> 00:18:07,017
At the end of the day...
339
00:18:08,829 --> 00:18:10,295
really, it doesn't matter.
340
00:18:11,329 --> 00:18:13,166
Because none of that
would have happened
341
00:18:13,965 --> 00:18:15,267
if we hadn't been there.
342
00:18:16,965 --> 00:18:19,997
[♪]
343
00:18:22,834 --> 00:18:24,474
[Al Baker]
It's losing a brother.
344
00:18:28,848 --> 00:18:30,315
It takes a piece of you.
345
00:18:32,748 --> 00:18:35,149
We're always criticized for
the thin blue line,
346
00:18:35,184 --> 00:18:36,713
or the "us and them,"
347
00:18:36,948 --> 00:18:41,117
alienation that others have
towards cops.
348
00:18:43,329 --> 00:18:45,731
You really hate to
discriminate against people
349
00:18:45,766 --> 00:18:47,227
because their not cops,
350
00:18:47,463 --> 00:18:49,492
but you know in your
heart of hearts,
351
00:18:49,694 --> 00:18:51,171
deep down where you live,
352
00:18:52,464 --> 00:18:53,668
they don't get it.
353
00:18:54,002 --> 00:18:57,034
[♪]
354
00:19:04,983 --> 00:19:06,709
You know he's dead now.
355
00:19:07,112 --> 00:19:09,084
You think of yourself,
you think of your family,
356
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:10,315
you think of his family.
357
00:19:10,450 --> 00:19:12,050
Goes through so fast.
358
00:19:12,386 --> 00:19:13,490
But you know it's over.
359
00:19:14,458 --> 00:19:16,053
It's almost like
the end of the world to you.
360
00:19:17,629 --> 00:19:19,195
[Brian Tuohy]
You could have had
breakfast with him,
361
00:19:19,230 --> 00:19:20,563
and all of a sudden,
he's gone.
362
00:19:21,670 --> 00:19:23,060
Why am I here today?
363
00:19:26,373 --> 00:19:29,099
It could have been me,
but I can't think like that.
364
00:19:31,674 --> 00:19:33,645
Nobody ever said,
"How-- How are you doin'?"
365
00:19:33,681 --> 00:19:34,874
or anything. No.
366
00:19:36,074 --> 00:19:39,045
Today, I would be in a hospital
for a week or so
367
00:19:39,148 --> 00:19:40,214
being talked to.
368
00:19:40,717 --> 00:19:42,611
But yeah, nothing--
nobody even spoke to me at all
369
00:19:42,647 --> 00:19:43,951
about what happened.
370
00:19:43,986 --> 00:19:47,018
[♪]
371
00:19:48,554 --> 00:19:51,121
[Al Sheppard]
The psychological dangers are
much worse than the physical.
372
00:19:52,197 --> 00:19:54,300
It will kill you.
Eat you up.
373
00:19:55,597 --> 00:19:58,535
A lot of cops have PTSD,
alcoholism.
374
00:20:00,506 --> 00:20:03,804
There's so many people I knew
that committed suicide.
375
00:20:08,339 --> 00:20:10,745
[Gerald Lefcourt] The head
of the Intelligence unit said
376
00:20:10,780 --> 00:20:13,182
there's as much as 10 percent
of the police force
377
00:20:13,217 --> 00:20:14,815
that are emotionally unstable.
378
00:20:17,221 --> 00:20:18,685
Which was a shocking thing
379
00:20:18,721 --> 00:20:21,393
for a leader in
the police department to say.
380
00:20:23,530 --> 00:20:25,495
[Jack Cambria]
There's a stigma
for many police officers
381
00:20:25,531 --> 00:20:28,066
to come forward because of
that strong macho image
382
00:20:28,102 --> 00:20:29,702
that we are
expected to portray.
383
00:20:29,738 --> 00:20:31,499
It's a humiliation.
384
00:20:31,535 --> 00:20:33,532
So they would rather
just keep their--
385
00:20:33,567 --> 00:20:35,865
their emotional issues internal,
386
00:20:35,901 --> 00:20:37,336
and we know what happens
with that.
387
00:20:37,372 --> 00:20:39,411
[indistinct chatter]
388
00:20:48,382 --> 00:20:50,422
[man on bullhorn]
389
00:20:52,550 --> 00:20:54,924
[Shu'aib Raheem]
Police were telling us
everything was all right,
390
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:56,121
no one was hurt.
391
00:20:56,290 --> 00:20:57,528
Lying to us.
392
00:20:58,966 --> 00:21:00,696
Trying to lull us to sleep.
393
00:21:01,798 --> 00:21:03,831
They were gonna kill us
when we walked out the door.
394
00:21:06,566 --> 00:21:09,300
Don't lie. Don't lie.
395
00:21:09,836 --> 00:21:11,674
Crazy people
aren't always stupid.
396
00:21:13,147 --> 00:21:14,677
He knows when
you're full of crap.
397
00:21:15,608 --> 00:21:17,548
Now the trust is gone.
398
00:21:17,948 --> 00:21:20,980
[♪]
399
00:21:26,450 --> 00:21:28,691
[Jerry Riccio]
By that time, you
had another 500 cops.
400
00:21:29,862 --> 00:21:32,459
Angry? Yeah.
401
00:21:32,494 --> 00:21:33,627
If the cops were to burst in,
402
00:21:33,662 --> 00:21:35,060
who are they gonna be
shootin' at?
403
00:21:37,136 --> 00:21:38,470
They wouldn't know where we are.
404
00:21:41,641 --> 00:21:44,938
There was no cop negotiating
comin' up close to the store,
405
00:21:44,973 --> 00:21:47,512
"Look, we'll give you this,
we'll do this for you."
406
00:21:48,949 --> 00:21:50,911
We're all gonna die.
407
00:21:52,514 --> 00:21:53,881
We're gonna shoot it out.
408
00:21:58,325 --> 00:22:00,360
The hostages
were all sittin' in there.
409
00:22:01,028 --> 00:22:02,656
Every time the guy fired a shot,
410
00:22:03,025 --> 00:22:05,893
the black girl named Fonnie
would jump out of her skin.
411
00:22:07,128 --> 00:22:10,461
[stammering] The-- The bang,
the bang, the bang, the bang.
412
00:22:10,497 --> 00:22:13,129
And she would--
413
00:22:13,165 --> 00:22:15,331
Tears were goin'.
Like everybody was cryin'.
414
00:22:18,672 --> 00:22:20,743
I was young, I was 16 years old.
415
00:22:22,042 --> 00:22:25,242
I went into shock from
what I just witnessed.
416
00:22:27,582 --> 00:22:30,885
Gunshots, the glass breaking.
417
00:22:32,055 --> 00:22:33,725
Um...
418
00:22:33,894 --> 00:22:35,357
people, you know--
419
00:22:35,425 --> 00:22:37,153
Yeah, the sounds of gunshots,
420
00:22:37,188 --> 00:22:40,959
uh, people, um, screaming
in the store,
421
00:22:41,161 --> 00:22:45,603
you know, we were-- we were--
we were screaming and...
422
00:22:47,607 --> 00:22:50,234
the gunman who was injured
was holding his abdomen,
423
00:22:50,735 --> 00:22:52,038
moaning in pain.
424
00:22:53,003 --> 00:22:54,546
His clothes were soaked through.
425
00:22:55,741 --> 00:22:56,944
He was bleeding out.
426
00:23:00,114 --> 00:23:01,680
[Jerry Riccio]
The leader comes
over to me and says,
427
00:23:01,715 --> 00:23:03,786
"My man that's hit is in pain.
428
00:23:04,419 --> 00:23:05,557
Give me a rag."
429
00:23:06,223 --> 00:23:07,918
[water running]
430
00:23:08,020 --> 00:23:09,754
They go in the bathroom,
I wet the rag,
431
00:23:10,089 --> 00:23:12,160
and I'm about to put
the rag on the wound,
432
00:23:12,896 --> 00:23:15,391
the little guy picks up the gun
and puts it to my head,
433
00:23:16,136 --> 00:23:17,635
stuck it underneath and...
434
00:23:18,237 --> 00:23:20,000
I went as high as I could.
435
00:23:22,235 --> 00:23:24,510
It doesn't take much for
those triggers to go off.
436
00:23:25,979 --> 00:23:27,073
Your head's gone.
437
00:23:27,946 --> 00:23:30,978
[♪]
438
00:23:32,778 --> 00:23:34,454
I'm tryin' to help ya.
439
00:23:35,587 --> 00:23:37,248
And you're gonna put
a gun to my head?
440
00:23:38,323 --> 00:23:39,789
What kind of a person are you?
441
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:42,286
He was very impulsive.
442
00:23:44,162 --> 00:23:45,762
Scary at times.
443
00:23:46,130 --> 00:23:47,192
Mussidiq.
444
00:23:48,969 --> 00:23:50,360
A loose cannon.
445
00:23:51,063 --> 00:23:53,473
We was concerned
about him exploding.
446
00:23:57,272 --> 00:23:59,103
[Jack Cambria]
When you get to the
scene as a negotiator,
447
00:23:59,138 --> 00:24:01,079
they're handing off the bomb
that's already--
448
00:24:01,114 --> 00:24:02,141
the fuse is already lit,
449
00:24:03,109 --> 00:24:05,276
so we have to kind of
try to defuse that.
450
00:24:10,191 --> 00:24:12,081
We have an ever evolving
approach
451
00:24:12,117 --> 00:24:13,526
because we learn from
mistakes.
452
00:24:15,253 --> 00:24:17,461
Prior to 1973,
we'd give the hostage taker
453
00:24:17,496 --> 00:24:19,390
a set amount of time
to surrender,
454
00:24:19,693 --> 00:24:20,830
and if they did not,
455
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:23,899
they would be met with
tactical force.
456
00:24:26,301 --> 00:24:27,365
Guns.
457
00:24:27,467 --> 00:24:30,267
[♪]
458
00:24:30,303 --> 00:24:32,977
The first hostage
negotiation team in the world
459
00:24:33,312 --> 00:24:35,576
was formulated here in the NYPD
460
00:24:35,611 --> 00:24:37,340
based on a series of events.
461
00:24:37,542 --> 00:24:40,652
The first one was
the Attica Prison riots
back in 1971.
462
00:24:43,381 --> 00:24:45,151
[Gerald Lefcourt]
Such oppressive conditions.
463
00:24:45,554 --> 00:24:47,087
There's no question,
464
00:24:47,123 --> 00:24:50,222
there's terrible racism in
the criminal justice system.
465
00:24:51,498 --> 00:24:54,099
Rather than trying to
resolve the crisis
466
00:24:54,135 --> 00:24:55,931
or take down the tensions,
467
00:24:56,899 --> 00:25:01,004
it's about winning
and knockout punches.
468
00:25:01,540 --> 00:25:03,609
It's about destroying
your enemy.
469
00:25:05,078 --> 00:25:06,238
That was Attica.
470
00:25:07,078 --> 00:25:08,339
[man]
471
00:25:08,541 --> 00:25:10,715
[men]
472
00:25:11,676 --> 00:25:14,116
[♪]
473
00:25:14,151 --> 00:25:16,787
[Jack Cambria]
The highest authorities,
all they do is tactics.
474
00:25:17,523 --> 00:25:19,491
And when every problem
is a nail,
475
00:25:19,526 --> 00:25:21,220
then every solution
has to be a hammer.
476
00:25:22,163 --> 00:25:23,296
We're not gonna negotiate.
477
00:25:23,331 --> 00:25:24,894
We're gonna
go through that door.
478
00:25:26,230 --> 00:25:28,260
[whirring]
479
00:25:28,759 --> 00:25:31,727
[♪]
480
00:25:31,763 --> 00:25:33,804
[gunfire]
481
00:25:35,376 --> 00:25:37,401
-[indistinct shouting]
-[clamoring]
482
00:25:38,511 --> 00:25:39,642
[Jack Cambria]
It was a bloodbath.
483
00:25:39,677 --> 00:25:41,647
Forty-three individuals
were killed.
484
00:25:42,614 --> 00:25:44,775
Let's learn from
those past mistakes.
485
00:25:45,111 --> 00:25:46,548
Maybe we shouldn't
do that again.
486
00:25:46,583 --> 00:25:48,280
It didn't work the last time.
487
00:25:49,619 --> 00:25:50,983
One year later,
there was
488
00:25:51,018 --> 00:25:52,990
the Dog Day Afternoon
bank robbery.
489
00:25:53,026 --> 00:25:55,058
[cheering]
490
00:25:55,561 --> 00:25:58,554
Messy, unorganized.
Very dangerous.
491
00:25:59,266 --> 00:26:00,895
It was negotiated from the cuff.
492
00:26:00,931 --> 00:26:03,334
There was no theory behind it.
It was just, uh,
493
00:26:03,369 --> 00:26:05,828
"Hey, come on out."
"No."
494
00:26:05,864 --> 00:26:07,134
"Come on out."
495
00:26:08,942 --> 00:26:09,998
"No."
496
00:26:10,034 --> 00:26:11,270
[no audible dialog]
497
00:26:12,939 --> 00:26:15,280
Then, in September of 1972,
498
00:26:15,315 --> 00:26:17,406
there was the Munich Olympics.
499
00:26:17,642 --> 00:26:20,279
Palestinian guerrillas took
Israeli athletes hostage.
500
00:26:21,754 --> 00:26:24,019
Eleven Israeli athletes
and coaches were killed.
501
00:26:24,892 --> 00:26:25,958
Tragedy.
502
00:26:26,127 --> 00:26:27,452
We have to do something.
503
00:26:28,289 --> 00:26:30,456
This could very well happen here
in New York City.
504
00:26:30,592 --> 00:26:32,224
[birds chirping]
505
00:26:32,259 --> 00:26:35,863
[woman]
Hostage negotiation was
a world problem
506
00:26:35,898 --> 00:26:38,332
that had come under
the microscope
507
00:26:38,468 --> 00:26:39,930
for the NYPD.
508
00:26:40,332 --> 00:26:42,433
And they were saying,
"Here, go fix it."
509
00:26:43,973 --> 00:26:45,771
[Al Baker]
Harvey didn't look like a cop,
510
00:26:45,807 --> 00:26:47,211
he didn't act like a cop.
511
00:26:47,780 --> 00:26:51,674
The least ever macho dude,
the least violent.
512
00:26:52,010 --> 00:26:53,851
He was seen as fruity.
513
00:26:55,579 --> 00:26:58,518
Not a back-slapper,
"let's go for a beer" guy.
514
00:26:58,787 --> 00:27:00,550
Pretty socially incompetent.
515
00:27:01,293 --> 00:27:03,592
Academic, quirky.
516
00:27:03,627 --> 00:27:05,890
Always using a funny story.
517
00:27:06,093 --> 00:27:07,865
He has the Jewish
sense of humor.
518
00:27:08,598 --> 00:27:10,660
He's the consummate Jew.
519
00:27:11,596 --> 00:27:15,532
He was a genius, oddball,
psychobabble kind of guy.
520
00:27:16,938 --> 00:27:18,036
[Harvey Schlossberg]
Distrust.
521
00:27:18,505 --> 00:27:21,814
They were checking on my advice
to make sure it was okay.
522
00:27:22,316 --> 00:27:23,875
Remember, this was all new.
523
00:27:24,277 --> 00:27:26,179
This was all relatively new
at the time.
524
00:27:26,214 --> 00:27:29,084
I was comin' up with
a whole bunch of theories.
525
00:27:30,014 --> 00:27:31,821
All the pressures,
526
00:27:31,856 --> 00:27:34,919
and all the anxieties
that we talk about
527
00:27:34,955 --> 00:27:36,660
which affect the criminal
528
00:27:36,896 --> 00:27:40,727
also affect the cop on the scene
the same exact way.
529
00:27:40,895 --> 00:27:43,469
We have to reduce the anxiety
530
00:27:43,504 --> 00:27:45,837
to get him out of
that panic state.
531
00:27:46,866 --> 00:27:48,906
[clock ticking]
532
00:27:50,001 --> 00:27:52,041
[siren wailing]
533
00:27:58,714 --> 00:28:00,684
[indistinct chatter]
534
00:28:00,719 --> 00:28:02,980
Nobody is certain of
what will happen
535
00:28:03,016 --> 00:28:04,680
in this kind of situation.
536
00:28:05,049 --> 00:28:06,284
Uh, I must say...
537
00:28:06,319 --> 00:28:07,624
[Al Baker]
When Police Commissioner Murphy
538
00:28:07,660 --> 00:28:09,661
got to the scene
that Friday night,
539
00:28:09,696 --> 00:28:12,195
there was a dead cop
two other cops shot.
540
00:28:13,231 --> 00:28:16,736
The question is,
"Can we stop them from
killing the hostages?"
541
00:28:19,105 --> 00:28:21,140
[Harvey Schlossberg]
I was in a different room
than they were.
542
00:28:21,609 --> 00:28:24,737
A half a block away.
A cleaning store.
543
00:28:25,206 --> 00:28:27,238
I was in the room where
you sweat and think,
544
00:28:27,274 --> 00:28:28,946
"What the heck is
gonna happen next?"
545
00:28:31,278 --> 00:28:33,249
[Jack Cambria]
Harvey was a traffic cop.
546
00:28:33,719 --> 00:28:35,953
but he had his PhD
in psychology.
547
00:28:38,392 --> 00:28:40,254
He was called out to the scene.
548
00:28:41,357 --> 00:28:45,359
Inside of a sporting goods store
there's butane, ammunition.
549
00:28:45,394 --> 00:28:48,332
The chief wanted to
throw tear gas inside of
the store,
550
00:28:48,901 --> 00:28:51,735
but Harvey had to, you know,
convince him that
551
00:28:51,770 --> 00:28:53,304
that would not be
the best approach.
552
00:28:53,874 --> 00:28:56,067
You could start a fire with
all that ammunition,
553
00:28:56,102 --> 00:28:57,810
blow up the entire neighborhood.
554
00:28:59,710 --> 00:29:01,847
The police are really worried.
555
00:29:02,381 --> 00:29:03,714
They get angrier.
556
00:29:03,750 --> 00:29:06,280
"Come out with your hands up
or else."
557
00:29:07,652 --> 00:29:09,754
It was the old Wild West.
558
00:29:09,789 --> 00:29:12,748
If you get an open target,
just shoot them.
559
00:29:15,389 --> 00:29:18,628
I told the commissioner,
"You get words going,
560
00:29:18,663 --> 00:29:20,360
then you can calm 'em down."
561
00:29:23,304 --> 00:29:25,204
Hostage negotiating?
562
00:29:25,472 --> 00:29:26,699
Wh-- What are you talkin' about?
563
00:29:27,335 --> 00:29:30,271
We don't-- We don't negotiate
with criminals.
564
00:29:31,909 --> 00:29:34,275
A cop became a cop
for law and order.
565
00:29:34,906 --> 00:29:35,980
Victory.
566
00:29:37,411 --> 00:29:40,144
This is not the time for
a Harvey Schlossberg.
567
00:29:40,179 --> 00:29:42,349
This is a time for surprise,
568
00:29:43,016 --> 00:29:44,384
violence of action,
569
00:29:45,249 --> 00:29:47,156
direct lethal force.
570
00:29:49,788 --> 00:29:52,057
[Al Sheppard]
Hear this rumbling
coming down Broadway.
571
00:29:52,426 --> 00:29:54,424
It's like a dinosaur
rumbling down the street.
572
00:29:54,459 --> 00:29:56,201
Bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-
bum-bum-bum-bum.
573
00:29:56,703 --> 00:29:58,237
And I'm goin',
"What the fuck is that?
574
00:29:58,472 --> 00:29:59,729
Is that what I think it is?"
575
00:29:59,965 --> 00:30:02,006
[rumbling]
576
00:30:04,104 --> 00:30:05,339
[Shu'aib Raheem]
Oh, Lord.
577
00:30:06,039 --> 00:30:07,976
Did anyone committing
578
00:30:08,011 --> 00:30:09,981
what we thought was
a small robbery
579
00:30:10,647 --> 00:30:12,346
ever anticipate
580
00:30:13,015 --> 00:30:15,186
confronting a t--
[chuckles]
581
00:30:15,221 --> 00:30:16,286
a tank?
582
00:30:16,322 --> 00:30:18,352
[rumbling]
583
00:30:19,993 --> 00:30:22,155
They were telling us that
if we didn't come out,
584
00:30:22,457 --> 00:30:25,095
they was gonna drive the tank
right inside the store.
585
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:29,998
[Harvey Schlossberg]
Oh, no, no, no, no,
586
00:30:30,033 --> 00:30:31,398
that's the worst thing
you can do.
587
00:30:32,732 --> 00:30:36,431
An ultimatum is trying to
frighten them into surrendering,
588
00:30:36,633 --> 00:30:39,103
and most people
in a situation like that
589
00:30:39,138 --> 00:30:40,371
don't get frightened.
590
00:30:40,406 --> 00:30:43,005
-[gunshots]
-That just angers them.
591
00:30:43,374 --> 00:30:45,007
They may go off the deep end.
592
00:30:45,043 --> 00:30:47,082
[gunshots]
593
00:30:47,485 --> 00:30:50,253
[Al Baker]
The bad guys, they're
bouncin' rounds off the tank.
594
00:30:51,323 --> 00:30:54,550
Four guys who just killed a cop
and have 12 people at gunpoint
595
00:30:54,685 --> 00:30:57,888
in a-- in an ammunition-filled
environment,
596
00:30:58,691 --> 00:31:00,790
and you're gonna-- you're gonna
play hardball with them?
597
00:31:01,599 --> 00:31:02,693
I don't think so.
598
00:31:04,196 --> 00:31:06,235
[indistinct chatter]
599
00:31:08,002 --> 00:31:09,873
[police radio chatter]
600
00:31:09,909 --> 00:31:11,741
[man on radio]
It's 2:54 in Midtown.
601
00:31:11,776 --> 00:31:13,536
I'm Drew Scott, WXLO News,
602
00:31:13,571 --> 00:31:15,837
with the top stories
of the hour.
603
00:31:15,873 --> 00:31:18,014
A standoff continues on
the shivering streets
604
00:31:18,050 --> 00:31:19,877
of the Williamsburg section
of Brooklyn
605
00:31:19,912 --> 00:31:22,449
between the cops and robbers
of that sporting goods store.
606
00:31:25,918 --> 00:31:28,961
[♪]
607
00:31:31,623 --> 00:31:33,257
[Jerry Riccio]
The leader comes over to me.
608
00:31:33,359 --> 00:31:34,995
I says,
"Want a cup of coffee?"
609
00:31:35,230 --> 00:31:37,332
He says, "You'd make me
a cup of coffee?
610
00:31:38,198 --> 00:31:39,895
I'm holding you hostage."
611
00:31:40,808 --> 00:31:42,806
I says, "Well,
if you look out the door,
612
00:31:43,041 --> 00:31:45,340
got about 5,000 guys
holdin' you hostage."
613
00:31:48,706 --> 00:31:50,444
And he says,
"I'll have a cup of coffee."
614
00:31:53,919 --> 00:31:55,611
If he was a customer
in the store,
615
00:31:55,647 --> 00:31:57,286
he would have been
a decent character.
616
00:31:58,086 --> 00:31:59,619
I spoke to them straight out.
617
00:31:59,654 --> 00:32:02,289
No neighborhood type
conversation like,
you know, like,
618
00:32:02,324 --> 00:32:05,091
"Hey, bro! You're doin'--"
None of that.
619
00:32:05,126 --> 00:32:06,493
Nobody wants to hear that shit.
620
00:32:08,629 --> 00:32:10,860
I talked to him like I was
talkin' to another person.
621
00:32:11,162 --> 00:32:12,928
Not my bro.
622
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:14,600
He wasn't my bro.
623
00:32:15,334 --> 00:32:16,633
We're all in a mess down here.
624
00:32:16,668 --> 00:32:18,701
Everybody's cryin',
everybody's separated.
625
00:32:18,736 --> 00:32:20,870
I says, "If you want to keep
an eye on us,
626
00:32:21,949 --> 00:32:24,181
take us upstairs to
the Boy Scout department."
627
00:32:26,745 --> 00:32:29,648
We all go upstairs,
no one knows what I have.
628
00:32:31,592 --> 00:32:33,949
I got a 9mm Smith & Wesson.
629
00:32:34,626 --> 00:32:35,885
Gun's in the desk.
630
00:32:37,422 --> 00:32:39,295
In the dark, I take my keys out.
631
00:32:40,264 --> 00:32:43,002
[mimics coughing]
Cough a little bit, turn it.
632
00:32:47,837 --> 00:32:49,074
[mimics coughing]
633
00:32:52,008 --> 00:32:54,046
Now I got the loaded 9mm.
634
00:32:54,977 --> 00:32:56,477
Who do I shoot first?
635
00:32:57,208 --> 00:32:58,348
The leader.
636
00:32:58,784 --> 00:33:00,017
He would have been the guy
637
00:33:00,052 --> 00:33:01,812
that might have been able to
do something.
638
00:33:04,317 --> 00:33:06,751
The number three guy second.
639
00:33:08,895 --> 00:33:10,852
The quiet guy,
leave him to last,
640
00:33:10,887 --> 00:33:12,696
because if he seen his friends
goin' down,
641
00:33:12,731 --> 00:33:14,363
he would turn to mush.
642
00:33:16,970 --> 00:33:19,401
[Al Baker]
It's an explosive situation.
643
00:33:20,841 --> 00:33:22,701
We want to control
that perimeter.
644
00:33:24,370 --> 00:33:25,801
They had the barricades up,
645
00:33:25,837 --> 00:33:28,171
but people are out there
yelling and screaming.
646
00:33:28,207 --> 00:33:30,205
[crowd noise]
647
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,108
[♪]
648
00:33:33,144 --> 00:33:35,613
[Brian Tuohy]
"Shortly after midnight,
a melee breaks out.
649
00:33:35,648 --> 00:33:38,349
"between police and
a group of 40 youths.
650
00:33:38,551 --> 00:33:41,218
"At least one cop seen
clubbing youths.
651
00:33:41,854 --> 00:33:44,855
Three teenagers arrested,
one bleeding profusely."
652
00:33:47,265 --> 00:33:49,827
"These are revolutionary
brothers in there, man.
653
00:33:49,862 --> 00:33:52,965
Power to the people!"
You know, "Yeah, man, yeah!"
654
00:33:53,001 --> 00:33:56,273
♪ War... ♪
655
00:33:56,939 --> 00:34:01,113
♪ Is coming ♪
656
00:34:01,679 --> 00:34:05,013
♪ I... ♪
657
00:34:05,048 --> 00:34:08,914
♪ Can feel it in the air ♪
658
00:34:08,949 --> 00:34:11,248
[Shu'aib Raheem]
Every time they heard
a shot from the store,
659
00:34:11,284 --> 00:34:12,586
they were cheering.
660
00:34:13,553 --> 00:34:15,490
'Cause we stood up to
the police.
661
00:34:15,923 --> 00:34:18,587
[♪]
662
00:34:18,623 --> 00:34:20,962
♪ Preachers are preachin' ♪
663
00:34:21,631 --> 00:34:24,496
[Al Baker] As a commander,
you're gonna have to factor in
664
00:34:24,531 --> 00:34:26,934
the crowd reaction
if we make entry.
665
00:34:26,969 --> 00:34:29,339
And suspects die,
666
00:34:29,374 --> 00:34:32,507
this thing is gonna end
in a fire-and-brimstone manner.
667
00:34:34,209 --> 00:34:35,840
It's a complete powder keg.
668
00:34:37,541 --> 00:34:38,579
Now what do you do?
669
00:34:42,319 --> 00:34:44,981
Do anything you can
to make a conversation.
670
00:34:45,792 --> 00:34:47,291
You must get them to talk.
671
00:34:50,730 --> 00:34:52,191
But they have a problem.
672
00:34:52,326 --> 00:34:54,463
They ripped the phone wires out.
673
00:34:55,163 --> 00:34:56,927
There's no way to talk.
674
00:35:01,574 --> 00:35:05,474
[Shu'aib Raheem]
They told us to communicate
by flashing lights.
675
00:35:07,838 --> 00:35:10,809
Hit once for "no"
and two for "yes."
676
00:35:11,809 --> 00:35:13,815
Are there people
inside the store?
677
00:35:13,851 --> 00:35:16,321
Bang, bang. Yes.
678
00:35:16,356 --> 00:35:18,818
Are any of your people hurt
and need medical attention?
679
00:35:18,854 --> 00:35:19,884
Yes.
680
00:35:21,027 --> 00:35:23,118
They asked us
to release one girl.
681
00:35:24,126 --> 00:35:25,791
We asked Fonnie Buckner.
682
00:35:27,661 --> 00:35:29,663
[Alice Buckner]
My mother loved to laugh.
683
00:35:30,099 --> 00:35:32,529
Vibrant. Full of life.
684
00:35:33,031 --> 00:35:35,702
Get out there, take her classes,
go to work every day.
685
00:35:36,838 --> 00:35:39,669
I was shocked when she started
buying skirts and dresses.
686
00:35:39,705 --> 00:35:41,439
I'm like,
"Mom, what's goin' on?
687
00:35:41,474 --> 00:35:42,808
She's like, "Got a promotion."
688
00:35:43,714 --> 00:35:44,810
Mm-hm.
689
00:35:47,318 --> 00:35:50,189
For New York Life.
She loved that job.
690
00:35:51,187 --> 00:35:52,719
And they were promoting her.
691
00:35:54,322 --> 00:35:56,219
Until this happened to her.
692
00:35:56,455 --> 00:35:57,988
And once this happened,
693
00:35:58,390 --> 00:36:00,223
it was like...
694
00:36:00,459 --> 00:36:02,157
she went into a shell...
695
00:36:04,699 --> 00:36:06,430
[Rosemary Catalano]
We were behind the cabinet
696
00:36:06,465 --> 00:36:07,767
in the Boy Scout area.
697
00:36:08,532 --> 00:36:10,100
I felt for her,
698
00:36:10,135 --> 00:36:13,344
so I kind of took on the role
to try and keep her calm.
699
00:36:15,079 --> 00:36:17,276
She was crying and shaking
700
00:36:17,311 --> 00:36:19,617
and just could not...
701
00:36:20,053 --> 00:36:22,287
uh, just could not
compose herself.
702
00:36:24,021 --> 00:36:26,387
She was the most afraid.
703
00:36:26,422 --> 00:36:28,227
So just tri--
tried to get her to go.
704
00:36:29,730 --> 00:36:31,395
She refused to go out.
705
00:36:32,690 --> 00:36:34,366
She didn't trust the police.
706
00:36:34,835 --> 00:36:36,191
She wanted to stay with us.
707
00:36:37,900 --> 00:36:40,932
[♪]
708
00:36:44,038 --> 00:36:45,268
[man]
709
00:36:45,870 --> 00:36:47,505
[Shu'aib Raheem]
That's when we sent out
710
00:36:47,540 --> 00:36:48,907
one of the people in the store.
711
00:36:50,444 --> 00:36:52,749
Goin' through my mind inside,
712
00:36:53,084 --> 00:36:54,381
man, I've done everything I can
713
00:36:54,417 --> 00:36:55,851
to try to talk to
you people, man,
714
00:36:55,887 --> 00:36:57,047
come on, man.
715
00:36:57,748 --> 00:36:59,489
Shit's f-ed up, you know?
716
00:37:00,423 --> 00:37:02,217
Give us a chance
to surrender, man.
717
00:37:03,796 --> 00:37:05,825
[clock ticking]
718
00:37:10,101 --> 00:37:11,894
I'm Drew Scott, WXLO News,
719
00:37:11,929 --> 00:37:14,196
with the top stories
of the hour.
720
00:37:14,231 --> 00:37:16,600
The stand off continues between
the cops and robbers
721
00:37:16,636 --> 00:37:17,969
at that sporting goods store.
722
00:37:18,911 --> 00:37:20,939
[indistinct chatter]
723
00:37:22,375 --> 00:37:25,647
[Harvey Schlossberg]
A think tank was formed
at the police headquarters.
724
00:37:26,281 --> 00:37:28,620
Different agencies.
725
00:37:28,655 --> 00:37:30,245
I was there.
726
00:37:31,551 --> 00:37:33,688
Police tend to be conservative.
727
00:37:34,652 --> 00:37:36,451
Nobody wanted change.
728
00:37:37,154 --> 00:37:39,956
They all believed
if you gave me the right gun
729
00:37:39,992 --> 00:37:42,829
with the right bullet,
I can put everybody out.
730
00:37:43,995 --> 00:37:46,162
But I don't think
it works that easy.
731
00:37:46,940 --> 00:37:48,363
That's a Hollywood thing.
732
00:37:49,399 --> 00:37:51,109
[Jack Cambria] Must have been
the hardest thing for Harvey
733
00:37:51,144 --> 00:37:53,037
to change an ingrained
belief system.
734
00:37:53,506 --> 00:37:55,138
These staunch critics.
735
00:37:56,113 --> 00:37:57,382
"Now we're gonna talk?
736
00:37:57,983 --> 00:37:59,477
"To these individuals?
737
00:37:59,513 --> 00:38:00,682
We're not social workers."
738
00:38:02,589 --> 00:38:04,983
The most difficult thing
in the world to change
is a culture.
739
00:38:06,189 --> 00:38:08,159
[indistinct dialog]
740
00:38:08,194 --> 00:38:09,627
[Al Baker]
You take your Pat Murphy.
741
00:38:09,830 --> 00:38:11,354
Notorious book guy.
742
00:38:11,957 --> 00:38:14,124
Liberal, progressive
police commissioner.
743
00:38:14,993 --> 00:38:16,996
Are you following his orders?
Absolutely.
744
00:38:17,332 --> 00:38:19,033
Do you respect him? No.
745
00:38:19,202 --> 00:38:20,667
Very grateful for that.
746
00:38:20,802 --> 00:38:22,531
[Al Baker]
He was hated.
He was a bookworm.
747
00:38:22,866 --> 00:38:25,410
Not a warrior from the ranks.
748
00:38:26,608 --> 00:38:28,073
[Al Sheppard]
He was a pantywaist.
749
00:38:28,276 --> 00:38:29,580
He had no balls.
750
00:38:29,883 --> 00:38:31,306
All prim and proper.
751
00:38:31,984 --> 00:38:33,613
He's puckering his ass
752
00:38:33,648 --> 00:38:35,249
'cause if something
goes down wrong,
753
00:38:35,351 --> 00:38:37,246
he's gonna be holding the bag.
754
00:38:38,891 --> 00:38:41,723
[Harvey Schlossberg]
I didn't think they would
change their attitude.
755
00:38:42,857 --> 00:38:46,124
I truly believe the only reason
they called me
756
00:38:46,159 --> 00:38:50,160
was because they realized
someone has to be responsible.
757
00:38:51,838 --> 00:38:53,531
If it goes bad,
758
00:38:53,633 --> 00:38:55,168
they're gonna blame Harvey.
759
00:38:56,037 --> 00:38:59,944
But I believed
police could actually
influence people,
760
00:38:59,980 --> 00:39:01,443
and get them to do things
761
00:39:01,479 --> 00:39:04,548
without bullying and force
and threats.
762
00:39:05,678 --> 00:39:07,452
I told 'em what I thought.
763
00:39:09,752 --> 00:39:11,390
[Jack Cambria]
The commissioner
agreed with him.
764
00:39:12,718 --> 00:39:14,349
We're not a team of assassins.
765
00:39:15,521 --> 00:39:17,088
Harvey succeeded.
766
00:39:18,763 --> 00:39:21,059
[Al Baker]
Commissioner Murphy
made that decision,
767
00:39:21,094 --> 00:39:24,964
establishing hostage negotiation
as the way forward.
768
00:39:26,871 --> 00:39:29,167
[man]
Commissioner, can you tell us
the sequence of events?
769
00:39:29,202 --> 00:39:31,866
I think
Deputy Commissioner Ward,
who was closest to that,
770
00:39:31,902 --> 00:39:33,269
could say a word about it.
771
00:39:34,112 --> 00:39:36,140
[indistinct chatter]
772
00:39:40,385 --> 00:39:42,251
All right,
the strategy at all times
773
00:39:42,453 --> 00:39:44,920
was to open lines of
communication
774
00:39:45,289 --> 00:39:46,755
with the people on the inside.
775
00:39:47,723 --> 00:39:49,989
I was in the armored
personnel carrier.
776
00:39:52,060 --> 00:39:54,664
[Toni Schlossberg]
Ben Ward heard
Harvey's trainings
777
00:39:55,766 --> 00:39:59,070
He would say, "If Harvey says
to do it the way,
778
00:39:59,105 --> 00:40:00,571
this is what we're going to do.
779
00:40:01,734 --> 00:40:04,335
Harvey would be there to coach.
780
00:40:04,904 --> 00:40:06,940
He would not be
the guy on the phone.
781
00:40:07,775 --> 00:40:09,747
He would guide
what was happening.
782
00:40:09,983 --> 00:40:12,011
[indistinct chatter]
783
00:40:13,316 --> 00:40:15,344
[police radio chatter]
784
00:40:19,123 --> 00:40:20,789
[phone ringing]
785
00:40:22,326 --> 00:40:24,694
I was home with a young baby.
786
00:40:25,558 --> 00:40:27,263
Ben Ward called,
787
00:40:27,465 --> 00:40:29,833
asked would I come out
to Brooklyn.
788
00:40:30,402 --> 00:40:33,070
I was floored
the police wanted me,
789
00:40:33,105 --> 00:40:34,968
their enemy, to help.
790
00:40:36,268 --> 00:40:39,302
I'm a lawyer for people
who are fighting the state.
791
00:40:40,446 --> 00:40:42,944
I had just finished
the Panther 21 case,
792
00:40:42,979 --> 00:40:46,980
which had as a main allegation
blowing up police precincts.
793
00:40:48,955 --> 00:40:50,379
It was a shock.
794
00:40:51,148 --> 00:40:54,350
But then again,
Ben Ward was different.
795
00:40:57,158 --> 00:41:01,361
A black man in the middle
of all of this race conflict,
796
00:41:01,697 --> 00:41:04,231
and he had
an understanding of us.
797
00:41:04,267 --> 00:41:05,460
the Panthers.
798
00:41:07,637 --> 00:41:09,739
I always had
a fond feeling for him.
799
00:41:10,671 --> 00:41:12,137
And I think it was mutual.
800
00:41:12,837 --> 00:41:14,876
[indistinct shouting]
801
00:41:22,145 --> 00:41:23,648
[Al Baker]
Lefcourt was hated.
802
00:41:23,683 --> 00:41:24,985
He was a radical lawyer.
803
00:41:25,652 --> 00:41:27,020
Enemy of the police.
804
00:41:27,822 --> 00:41:29,891
Why are we kowtowing
to these people?
805
00:41:31,155 --> 00:41:32,597
[Al Sheppard]
Friggin' outraged.
806
00:41:32,632 --> 00:41:35,191
Allowing the attorney to come in
and kiss their ass,
807
00:41:35,226 --> 00:41:36,797
and "I'm gonna represent you,"
you know,
808
00:41:36,832 --> 00:41:39,002
and-- and everything's
gonna be hunky-dory,
809
00:41:39,038 --> 00:41:40,264
this'll be okay.
810
00:41:42,003 --> 00:41:43,638
[Gerald Lefcourt]
They asked whether we could
811
00:41:43,673 --> 00:41:45,700
get them to pick up
a walkie-talkie.
812
00:41:46,003 --> 00:41:47,475
[indistinct radio chatter]
813
00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:49,911
[man]
Easy. Easy. Easy.
814
00:41:51,710 --> 00:41:53,750
[man on bullhorn]
815
00:41:57,187 --> 00:41:59,217
[gunshots]
816
00:42:00,985 --> 00:42:02,594
-[man] Okay--
-[gunshots]
817
00:42:05,494 --> 00:42:07,192
[gunshots continue]
818
00:42:09,498 --> 00:42:11,061
Now they want to talk.
819
00:42:11,264 --> 00:42:13,965
They puttin' these
strange people on the speaker.
820
00:42:14,334 --> 00:42:17,367
We weren't in a speakin' mood
because they were in a tank.
821
00:42:18,841 --> 00:42:21,613
I could not believe
I was being fired upon.
822
00:42:52,311 --> 00:42:53,568
[Gerald Lefcourt]
Nothing.
823
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,508
[indistinct chatter]
824
00:43:01,745 --> 00:43:04,788
[♪]
825
00:43:08,419 --> 00:43:10,928
When I went outside
to get the walkie-talkie,
826
00:43:11,064 --> 00:43:12,087
I see more cops
827
00:43:12,122 --> 00:43:13,830
than I've ever seen in my life.
828
00:43:14,665 --> 00:43:17,233
I see people
all on the side streets.
829
00:43:17,269 --> 00:43:19,297
[indistinct chatter]
830
00:43:21,507 --> 00:43:23,100
As soon as I walked out
the door I knew,
831
00:43:23,136 --> 00:43:25,701
I could have
waltzed out of the store.
832
00:43:25,736 --> 00:43:26,975
Escaped.
833
00:43:30,744 --> 00:43:31,848
I thought about it.
834
00:43:32,745 --> 00:43:34,214
I got a family.
835
00:43:34,349 --> 00:43:35,446
Wife.
836
00:43:35,948 --> 00:43:37,546
I thought about my daughter.
837
00:43:41,260 --> 00:43:42,989
It's hard to figure.
838
00:43:43,092 --> 00:43:45,059
Especially if you ran away
and people got killed.
839
00:43:50,669 --> 00:43:52,531
Then you gotta live with that
afterwards.
840
00:43:53,434 --> 00:43:56,202
They said,
"Everybody except for
Rosemary was a minority."
841
00:43:56,935 --> 00:43:58,209
I says, "No, no, no, no.
842
00:43:58,811 --> 00:44:01,075
"What everybody in this store
was, was a human being.
843
00:44:04,946 --> 00:44:06,883
I'm not abandoning
a human being."
844
00:44:09,282 --> 00:44:11,351
[Shu'aib Raheem]
The walkie-talkie was broken.
845
00:44:11,887 --> 00:44:13,924
I guess them throwing it
broke it.
846
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:15,859
And we threw it back out.
847
00:44:17,523 --> 00:44:19,731
[man on radio]
Everybody stand pat.
Everybody stand pat.
848
00:44:22,027 --> 00:44:23,768
Whatever devices we brought in,
849
00:44:23,804 --> 00:44:27,530
whatever convincing we tried
to do to get them to talk,
850
00:44:28,407 --> 00:44:30,709
none of it was productive.
851
00:44:33,373 --> 00:44:35,945
I don't think we had any idea
who these guys were.
852
00:44:37,250 --> 00:44:38,783
Why they were in there.
853
00:44:45,585 --> 00:44:48,617
[♪]
854
00:44:52,823 --> 00:44:55,097
[Shu'aib Raheem]
Growing up here in Brownsville,
in Brooklyn,
855
00:44:55,233 --> 00:44:58,429
I remember eating
ketchup sandwiches and
drinking sugar water.
856
00:45:01,538 --> 00:45:02,804
We were struggling.
857
00:45:03,107 --> 00:45:05,307
There were
five kids in the house
with Mom and Dad.
858
00:45:05,609 --> 00:45:07,944
You got a lot of table pimps.
859
00:45:08,079 --> 00:45:10,648
We call 'em crumb snatchers,
we were all crumb snatchers.
860
00:45:10,683 --> 00:45:12,982
So there was all--
We was always hungry.
861
00:45:14,683 --> 00:45:16,150
Your first love is Mom.
862
00:45:16,952 --> 00:45:19,087
She was like a mentor,
a teacher.
863
00:45:22,020 --> 00:45:23,795
My father was my hero.
864
00:45:24,958 --> 00:45:26,391
I wanted to be just like him.
865
00:45:30,299 --> 00:45:33,497
And then one day I discovered
that he was not my father.
866
00:45:34,733 --> 00:45:36,365
Just...
867
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,272
sent my self-esteem
into a tailspin.
868
00:45:42,441 --> 00:45:45,744
Began even doubting that
my mom was even my mom.
869
00:45:46,213 --> 00:45:48,743
I said, "What other lies
have y'all told me?
870
00:45:50,453 --> 00:45:51,515
Who am I?
871
00:45:53,789 --> 00:45:55,854
Trust is a big, big thing.
872
00:45:56,290 --> 00:45:59,292
I would have these nightmares
about falling.
873
00:46:00,724 --> 00:46:03,565
I was searching. Oh, my God,
I was searching for
874
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:05,364
some sense in the world.
875
00:46:06,763 --> 00:46:08,999
I started drinking when I was
about 11 years old.
876
00:46:09,501 --> 00:46:13,273
My 16th birthday,
I drank myself into a coma.
877
00:46:17,347 --> 00:46:19,640
I had...
878
00:46:19,675 --> 00:46:22,148
actually contemplated suicide
before then
879
00:46:22,183 --> 00:46:25,615
because my life was--
had bottomed out.
880
00:46:27,018 --> 00:46:28,959
I was, uh, lost.
881
00:46:29,792 --> 00:46:31,719
For somebody to take hostages,
882
00:46:31,755 --> 00:46:35,066
they're in either psychological
or emotional pain.
883
00:46:35,802 --> 00:46:39,166
I'm absolutely curious about
who the gunman is,
884
00:46:39,202 --> 00:46:41,873
and I'm starting to look for
those kind of clues.
885
00:46:43,808 --> 00:46:46,103
I'm there to listen
and empathize.
886
00:46:46,138 --> 00:46:48,473
I'm his little Jiminy Cricket.
887
00:46:48,976 --> 00:46:50,640
I'm his little conscience.
888
00:46:53,181 --> 00:46:55,143
[Shu'aib Raheem]
I started reading the Koran.
889
00:46:55,779 --> 00:46:59,154
When I took my shahada
with the Sunni community,
890
00:46:59,887 --> 00:47:02,025
I cried tears of joy.
891
00:47:03,993 --> 00:47:06,925
Like looking for
a long lost friend,
892
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:08,427
and finally meeting him.
893
00:47:09,501 --> 00:47:11,100
Oh, God, there you are.
894
00:47:13,968 --> 00:47:16,371
It made me feel relieved.
895
00:47:16,406 --> 00:47:17,601
Free.
896
00:47:18,870 --> 00:47:19,944
Sane.
897
00:47:20,546 --> 00:47:22,269
For the first time in my life.
898
00:47:22,705 --> 00:47:25,383
Life had meaning.
The world had meaning.
899
00:47:25,418 --> 00:47:27,413
♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah ♪
900
00:47:28,078 --> 00:47:30,088
♪ Yeah ♪
901
00:47:30,891 --> 00:47:34,189
Soon, my life was in danger
because of my faith.
902
00:47:35,395 --> 00:47:37,358
The Nation of Islam.
903
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,530
We were deadly enemies.
904
00:47:39,565 --> 00:47:41,924
♪ Don't mess with people ♪
905
00:47:42,527 --> 00:47:45,166
There's nothing Islamic
about The Nation.
906
00:47:45,201 --> 00:47:48,538
♪ Those other folks stand
and chant... ♪
907
00:47:48,874 --> 00:47:50,675
They believe that
the Black Man is from
908
00:47:50,710 --> 00:47:52,867
the Lost and Found
Nation of Shabazz,
909
00:47:53,546 --> 00:47:55,038
the white man is the devil.
910
00:47:55,073 --> 00:47:56,743
♪ Ain't no lie ♪
911
00:47:56,878 --> 00:47:59,139
This invented mythology.
912
00:47:59,175 --> 00:48:01,046
♪ Yeah ♪
913
00:48:01,081 --> 00:48:02,543
They believe every single word,
914
00:48:02,579 --> 00:48:04,450
and some of them
would kill for it.
915
00:48:06,253 --> 00:48:09,589
Any time you question
their claims,
916
00:48:09,892 --> 00:48:11,790
you are met with threats.
917
00:48:12,426 --> 00:48:14,658
We was having confrontations
all over the city.
918
00:48:15,697 --> 00:48:17,065
Assaults,
919
00:48:17,100 --> 00:48:19,499
firebombing in the mosque
up in Harlem.
920
00:48:20,102 --> 00:48:22,734
One of them tried to
proselytize me.
921
00:48:23,370 --> 00:48:25,174
I say, "You say
the white man is the devil?"
922
00:48:26,106 --> 00:48:27,609
"That's right, brother man."
923
00:48:28,211 --> 00:48:32,541
I said, "But the man
who you worship as Allah,
924
00:48:32,576 --> 00:48:35,679
"his name is
Wallace Fard Mohammed.
925
00:48:36,081 --> 00:48:37,322
"He's a white man.
926
00:48:37,757 --> 00:48:39,350
"And if the white man
is the devil,
927
00:48:39,386 --> 00:48:41,082
that means you're
a devil-worshiper."
928
00:48:41,384 --> 00:48:43,785
Oh, man, he got furious.
929
00:48:43,821 --> 00:48:45,964
"They'll cut out your tongue
for that, brother."
930
00:48:49,263 --> 00:48:52,602
Matter of days,
he came to my house
931
00:48:52,638 --> 00:48:54,632
with about four other men.
932
00:48:56,667 --> 00:48:58,339
"We just wanna talk to you,
brother."
933
00:49:00,777 --> 00:49:02,475
These are the soldiers.
934
00:49:04,308 --> 00:49:05,575
It became clear to me
935
00:49:05,610 --> 00:49:07,876
they were gonna really hurt me
really bad.
936
00:49:12,185 --> 00:49:14,190
And I applied for a gun permit.
937
00:49:15,023 --> 00:49:16,456
The desk sergeant, he says,
938
00:49:16,491 --> 00:49:18,596
"You know we're gonna probably
turn it down anyway.
939
00:49:18,631 --> 00:49:19,789
You don't really need a gun."
940
00:49:20,833 --> 00:49:23,397
"You know, we're Muslims
and we're Sunni,
941
00:49:23,433 --> 00:49:25,661
and Sunni, I--" you know,
and they was like laughing,
942
00:49:25,696 --> 00:49:28,171
"What's the difference?
They all Muslims."
943
00:49:29,001 --> 00:49:30,570
Who cares?
944
00:49:30,605 --> 00:49:32,906
You know, don't confuse me with
someone who gives a crap.
945
00:49:33,175 --> 00:49:35,237
You know? Okay,
so you're a Sunni
946
00:49:35,273 --> 00:49:36,946
and you're Jihadist,
947
00:49:36,981 --> 00:49:39,017
and you got this cause,
that cause.
948
00:49:40,218 --> 00:49:43,251
We weren't certain of who these
Black Muslims were
949
00:49:43,286 --> 00:49:45,914
with these skull caps and
these flowing robes.
950
00:49:46,856 --> 00:49:48,059
We didn't trust them.
951
00:49:48,828 --> 00:49:51,029
We knew that
they didn't trust us.
952
00:49:53,327 --> 00:49:55,330
[Shu'aib Raheem]
My wife hated guns.
953
00:49:55,833 --> 00:49:57,732
I purchased a gun anyway.
954
00:49:58,301 --> 00:50:00,133
But I said, "You have to learn
how to use this.
955
00:50:00,169 --> 00:50:01,864
You never know,
you may need it."
956
00:50:03,671 --> 00:50:07,778
When criticism was leveled
against The Nation of Islam,
957
00:50:07,814 --> 00:50:10,046
they reacted in
some violent ways.
958
00:50:10,215 --> 00:50:13,381
They broke into his apartment
some kind of way.
959
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,220
His wife was in
one of the rooms.
960
00:50:20,259 --> 00:50:22,192
[Shu'aib Raheem]
She was in the bed,
under the covers.
961
00:50:22,227 --> 00:50:25,955
They lifted the window up,
stepped into the bedroom.
962
00:50:26,991 --> 00:50:29,458
She jumped up and pointed at him
and just started shootin',
963
00:50:29,493 --> 00:50:31,159
and he escaped out the window.
964
00:50:31,194 --> 00:50:34,237
[♪]
965
00:50:36,837 --> 00:50:38,142
Oh, God.
966
00:50:39,274 --> 00:50:41,035
She was never the same
after that.
967
00:50:44,346 --> 00:50:46,750
As soon as I came home,
I called the police.
968
00:50:47,052 --> 00:50:50,814
It took them two days
to come to my house.
969
00:50:53,957 --> 00:50:55,984
I asked for a 24 hour guard.
970
00:50:57,456 --> 00:50:59,823
For Black people?
[chuckles]
971
00:51:00,557 --> 00:51:02,930
The police didn't care about us.
972
00:51:03,232 --> 00:51:05,530
We never discriminated
against anybody.
973
00:51:05,565 --> 00:51:08,906
I mean, uh,
I-- I can't tell you how many--
974
00:51:08,941 --> 00:51:12,501
how many Black people
lives I saved.
975
00:51:12,703 --> 00:51:17,505
I think we over--
over-define racism
976
00:51:17,540 --> 00:51:21,010
as, uh, something bad,
977
00:51:21,213 --> 00:51:23,848
when in reality,
978
00:51:24,383 --> 00:51:26,322
we want to be with our own kind.
979
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,124
Yeah, you had the slavery,
980
00:51:29,159 --> 00:51:31,525
but think of how great
America is.
981
00:51:32,732 --> 00:51:34,098
What did I ever do wrong?
982
00:51:34,133 --> 00:51:37,025
I-- I wasn't responsible for
slavery or racism
983
00:51:38,763 --> 00:51:41,103
The only way we're gonna end
the racism
984
00:51:41,138 --> 00:51:43,036
is let people decide
for themselves
985
00:51:43,072 --> 00:51:44,505
who they want to be with.
986
00:51:47,346 --> 00:51:50,147
[Al Sheppard]
Some cops became really,
like, anti-Black,
987
00:51:50,183 --> 00:51:53,311
but, you know, it was more of
an occupying army
988
00:51:53,346 --> 00:51:54,683
than it was of anything else.
989
00:51:55,286 --> 00:51:57,354
An army of occupation
of the ghetto, you know?
990
00:51:57,924 --> 00:51:59,982
And that's been
through the ages.
991
00:52:00,917 --> 00:52:03,227
The Constitution was
flushed down the toilet.
992
00:52:05,455 --> 00:52:08,364
Policing nowadays,
some of them never have been
around Black people.
993
00:52:09,098 --> 00:52:10,628
Everybody is a SWAT member,
994
00:52:10,864 --> 00:52:13,136
they have no communication with
the people on the street.
995
00:52:13,172 --> 00:52:15,969
They just go by in these
smoked out windows and--
996
00:52:16,005 --> 00:52:17,333
More like a Gestapo.
997
00:52:17,869 --> 00:52:20,173
You know, if you can't
get to know the people,
998
00:52:20,208 --> 00:52:21,806
that's not effective policing.
999
00:52:22,272 --> 00:52:25,943
[♪]
1000
00:52:25,978 --> 00:52:27,614
[Walter Cronkite]
Here in Washington
this evening,
1001
00:52:27,650 --> 00:52:30,579
six persons reported killed
in a wave of violence
1002
00:52:30,614 --> 00:52:32,351
including shooting at a home
1003
00:52:32,386 --> 00:52:34,252
owned by
Kareem Abdul-Jabar,
1004
00:52:34,287 --> 00:52:36,489
the pro basketball star.
1005
00:52:36,524 --> 00:52:38,425
[reporter]
Two adults and a child shot,
1006
00:52:38,460 --> 00:52:40,826
four children
drowned in a bathtub.
1007
00:52:40,862 --> 00:52:43,696
Two other adults, both women,
shot in the head survived.
1008
00:52:46,965 --> 00:52:49,102
[Dawud Rahman]
The Nation of Islam
actually killed
1009
00:52:49,138 --> 00:52:51,033
a family of Sunni Muslims.
1010
00:52:52,402 --> 00:52:54,168
Fear. Panic.
1011
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,439
It's the most grotesque--
1012
00:52:59,975 --> 00:53:02,443
I mean, despic--
I mean, the-- the news.
1013
00:53:03,012 --> 00:53:05,355
They shot a two-year-old baby
in the head.
1014
00:53:06,556 --> 00:53:09,689
That was the straw that broke
the camel's back.
1015
00:53:14,425 --> 00:53:16,296
Dawud and Salih,
1016
00:53:16,332 --> 00:53:18,126
we saw what happened
on the news.
1017
00:53:19,698 --> 00:53:21,703
I had one gun
with three bullets.
1018
00:53:21,739 --> 00:53:23,703
[chuckles]
1019
00:53:24,842 --> 00:53:26,642
.25 automatic.
1020
00:53:27,078 --> 00:53:29,940
I wanted a shotgun,
and ammo.
1021
00:53:31,944 --> 00:53:35,451
To protect out families
and to stop these maniacs.
1022
00:53:37,285 --> 00:53:39,554
That was a terrible decision.
1023
00:53:40,284 --> 00:53:41,952
But...
1024
00:53:44,253 --> 00:53:46,555
Believe it or not, you
researched it a little bit more,
1025
00:53:46,590 --> 00:53:48,557
they wanted five guns.
1026
00:53:48,926 --> 00:53:51,599
They could have driven to
Nassau County.
1027
00:53:53,103 --> 00:53:54,532
The first one, the leader,
1028
00:53:54,568 --> 00:53:57,170
didn't have a--
a criminal record.
1029
00:53:57,439 --> 00:53:59,640
He could have bought them
legally.
1030
00:54:01,043 --> 00:54:03,072
[clock ticking]
1031
00:54:05,883 --> 00:54:07,912
[traffic noise]
1032
00:54:10,313 --> 00:54:12,518
[man on radio]
Temperature 27 degrees
in Midtown.
1033
00:54:12,553 --> 00:54:15,026
On the scene,
Tom Foty reports.
1034
00:54:15,061 --> 00:54:16,621
[Tom Foty]
The standoff continues
1035
00:54:16,657 --> 00:54:18,352
in an atmosphere of
uneasy quiet.
1036
00:54:18,388 --> 00:54:21,429
One of the gunmen lies wounded
and in critical condition.
1037
00:54:21,465 --> 00:54:23,892
The man refuses
all police offers of aid,
1038
00:54:23,928 --> 00:54:25,961
and the consensus is
that if he dies
1039
00:54:25,996 --> 00:54:28,067
something, what,
nobody will speculate,
1040
00:54:28,103 --> 00:54:29,164
will happen.
1041
00:54:29,766 --> 00:54:31,342
[indistinct radio chatter]
1042
00:54:35,177 --> 00:54:36,707
Mussidiq was thirsty.
1043
00:54:36,742 --> 00:54:38,610
He kept sayin',
"Oh, give me water."
1044
00:54:38,645 --> 00:54:40,851
And Riccio said,
"Don't give him water.
1045
00:54:40,986 --> 00:54:42,119
"That's the worst thing you do
1046
00:54:42,154 --> 00:54:43,684
with a gunshot wound to
the stomach."
1047
00:54:45,754 --> 00:54:49,058
Then when he started spitting up
green bile fluid,
1048
00:54:49,294 --> 00:54:51,355
that mean his bowel
had been ruptured.
1049
00:54:51,858 --> 00:54:54,057
And then he was in
and out of consciousness.
1050
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:56,400
We gotta get him outta here.
1051
00:54:57,831 --> 00:55:00,768
If they really are attached to
their comrade,
1052
00:55:00,803 --> 00:55:03,473
then they're gonna come out
to give him a chance to live.
1053
00:55:05,938 --> 00:55:08,841
That was the only
bargaining chip that we had.
1054
00:55:11,540 --> 00:55:14,517
[♪]
1055
00:55:16,012 --> 00:55:18,312
The real difficult part
is waiting.
1056
00:55:23,186 --> 00:55:24,719
[Brian Tuohy]
You're just sittin' back
waiting.
1057
00:55:25,155 --> 00:55:27,523
Just biding time with
nothing getting done.
1058
00:55:27,558 --> 00:55:29,532
You feel useless.
1059
00:55:31,698 --> 00:55:34,165
Officers think
we have to be strong.
1060
00:55:34,201 --> 00:55:35,670
Supermen.
1061
00:55:36,635 --> 00:55:38,201
You're expected to take action.
1062
00:55:39,171 --> 00:55:41,270
But sometimes,
the best thing to do
is nothing at all.
1063
00:55:41,672 --> 00:55:43,172
Let emotions wind down.
1064
00:55:43,741 --> 00:55:45,009
Those are Harvey's teachings.
1065
00:55:45,842 --> 00:55:48,111
He calls it dynamic inactivity.
1066
00:55:49,488 --> 00:55:52,481
Well, doing nothing
is certainly doing something,
1067
00:55:52,517 --> 00:55:53,690
that's for sure.
1068
00:55:54,026 --> 00:55:56,053
[indistinct radio chatter]
1069
00:56:01,097 --> 00:56:03,126
[man on radio]
1070
00:56:15,347 --> 00:56:17,047
[Harvey Schlossberg]
Around noon time,
1071
00:56:17,082 --> 00:56:19,213
another hostage was released
1072
00:56:19,248 --> 00:56:20,979
to trade for a doctor.
1073
00:56:22,585 --> 00:56:24,713
That's what I look for
in a hostage taker,
1074
00:56:24,749 --> 00:56:26,754
that moment of hesitation.
1075
00:56:29,257 --> 00:56:30,384
They're finished.
1076
00:56:31,097 --> 00:56:32,727
I've got them.
They're mine.
1077
00:56:35,065 --> 00:56:36,330
Big breakthrough.
1078
00:56:36,466 --> 00:56:38,293
This could get them to
surrender.
1079
00:56:41,270 --> 00:56:43,540
This community doctor,
1080
00:56:43,575 --> 00:56:45,971
he was told,
"You stand a chance
of being killed.
1081
00:56:48,038 --> 00:56:50,140
I give a lot of credit to
the nurse.
1082
00:56:50,950 --> 00:56:51,977
That came with him.
1083
00:56:52,743 --> 00:56:53,979
She was very brave.
1084
00:56:55,454 --> 00:56:57,680
I thought she was sent in there
to distract us
1085
00:56:57,715 --> 00:56:59,316
the way she was dressed.
1086
00:56:59,752 --> 00:57:01,725
She was distracting,
no doubt.
1087
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:02,823
Whoa!
1088
00:57:03,753 --> 00:57:05,323
"Volumptuous."
1089
00:57:05,892 --> 00:57:08,290
We said, "Oh, no,
you can't come in here."
1090
00:57:09,225 --> 00:57:11,502
We sent her back out
to change clothes.
1091
00:57:13,336 --> 00:57:16,004
The doctor, we frisked him.
1092
00:57:16,407 --> 00:57:18,102
He didn't have any weapons
on him.
1093
00:57:19,069 --> 00:57:22,139
So then we took him to see
Mussidiq.
1094
00:57:23,949 --> 00:57:25,010
He was scared.
1095
00:57:25,975 --> 00:57:27,485
They held him at gunpoint.
1096
00:57:29,016 --> 00:57:31,654
They didn't believe that he was
truly a physician.
1097
00:57:33,755 --> 00:57:35,718
[Shu'aib Raheem]
He gave him a painkiller.
1098
00:57:35,987 --> 00:57:37,952
Hooked up a makeshift
fluid rack
1099
00:57:37,987 --> 00:57:40,062
to hold the saline solution.
1100
00:57:40,198 --> 00:57:41,499
They brought the phone in.
1101
00:57:42,198 --> 00:57:43,358
A direct line.
1102
00:57:44,801 --> 00:57:47,197
We're trying to figure out a way
to end this thing.
1103
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:50,469
[Al Baker]
Getting a phone in
to any hostage taker
1104
00:57:50,504 --> 00:57:52,171
is major breakthrough.
1105
00:57:52,707 --> 00:57:54,303
Now you're starting to
negotiate.
1106
00:57:55,942 --> 00:57:57,810
[Harvey Schlossberg]
What I'm tryin' to do is
1107
00:57:57,845 --> 00:58:00,508
to find out what this guy
really needs.
1108
00:58:01,177 --> 00:58:03,678
I want you to recognize
I'm a person.
1109
00:58:03,980 --> 00:58:06,084
I need love.
I need help.
1110
00:58:07,956 --> 00:58:11,023
Freud believed the solution
was inside the person.
1111
00:58:15,825 --> 00:58:17,393
Well, obviously,
1112
00:58:17,895 --> 00:58:20,065
I wanted to talk to the police.
1113
00:58:21,304 --> 00:58:23,365
Conflicted as I was.
1114
00:58:24,206 --> 00:58:25,235
Confused.
1115
00:58:26,405 --> 00:58:27,545
Angry.
1116
00:58:28,477 --> 00:58:29,943
I was looking for a way out.
1117
00:58:33,345 --> 00:58:35,410
[Jack Cambria]
Harvey taught me
that anybody can speak.
1118
00:58:36,513 --> 00:58:38,853
But the real skill in being
a negotiator is listening.
1119
00:58:40,986 --> 00:58:42,758
You have to use
active listening.
1120
00:58:43,392 --> 00:58:44,595
Emotional labeling.
1121
00:58:45,430 --> 00:58:48,031
Being non-judgmental,
non-threatening.
1122
00:58:48,667 --> 00:58:51,092
And when they're yelling and
screaming and insulting,
1123
00:58:51,561 --> 00:58:54,198
not accepting that verbal spear
that was just thrown at you.
1124
00:58:55,700 --> 00:58:56,766
Deflecting it.
1125
00:58:57,035 --> 00:58:58,433
It'll land on the wall
behind you.
1126
00:58:59,169 --> 00:59:00,474
They'll be left unarmed
at this point,
1127
00:59:00,509 --> 00:59:01,711
and you'll be left uninjured.
1128
00:59:04,383 --> 00:59:06,544
It helps in
every aspect of life.
1129
00:59:07,013 --> 00:59:08,914
I used to get my best
negotiation practice
1130
00:59:08,949 --> 00:59:10,644
when my children were in
their adolescence.
1131
00:59:11,113 --> 00:59:12,480
It works at home as well.
1132
00:59:16,556 --> 00:59:18,228
[phone ringing]
1133
00:59:18,898 --> 00:59:20,928
[Shu'aib Raheem]
When you pick it up, someone
answered right away.
1134
00:59:22,134 --> 00:59:24,294
His tone was very stern.
1135
00:59:25,261 --> 00:59:26,867
I said, "Well, listen,
we need some--"
1136
00:59:26,902 --> 00:59:29,904
"You'll get no assurances,
you just come out."
1137
00:59:31,073 --> 00:59:33,501
He just wanted me to
walk out there
and get gunned down.
1138
00:59:34,773 --> 00:59:37,142
He was a complete...
1139
00:59:39,384 --> 00:59:41,010
Excuse my French
but forgive me,
1140
00:59:41,046 --> 00:59:42,743
but there's no other
description.
1141
00:59:42,778 --> 00:59:43,852
Asshole.
1142
00:59:46,558 --> 00:59:48,626
I stopped talking
and hung the phone up.
1143
00:59:50,559 --> 00:59:52,025
We're gonna defend ourself...
1144
00:59:55,099 --> 00:59:56,130
to the end.
1145
00:59:56,165 --> 00:59:59,197
[♪]
1146
01:00:19,357 --> 01:00:20,454
[Alice Buckner]
It's scary.
1147
01:00:20,923 --> 01:00:22,919
You're crying, you know,
your mother's in there.
1148
01:00:22,954 --> 01:00:24,920
and the neighbors are talkin',
1149
01:00:24,956 --> 01:00:26,727
and people in the hallway,
1150
01:00:26,762 --> 01:00:28,297
and people comin' up
to check on me.
1151
01:00:28,332 --> 01:00:29,666
Early this evening,
1152
01:00:29,701 --> 01:00:31,832
a third hostage was released
by the gunmen.
1153
01:00:31,867 --> 01:00:33,496
[Alice Buckner]
They kept saying on the TV
1154
01:00:33,532 --> 01:00:36,936
they have enough ammunition to
hold these people for a week,
1155
01:00:36,972 --> 01:00:39,633
and I don't know what's
happening at the store.
1156
01:00:40,443 --> 01:00:41,844
My mother's not home.
1157
01:00:43,842 --> 01:00:45,078
And she's not home.
1158
01:00:46,512 --> 01:00:49,544
[♪]
1159
01:00:51,657 --> 01:00:53,647
[Dawud Rahman]
I was, like, filled with dread.
1160
01:00:55,451 --> 01:00:58,594
I was suggesting that
we try and clear up
1161
01:00:58,630 --> 01:01:01,165
the-- the mess in the store,
you know,
1162
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:03,093
but, uh, that was like
1163
01:01:03,128 --> 01:01:06,033
a naive, uh, suggestion,
you know, uh...
1164
01:01:07,968 --> 01:01:09,432
[Shu'aib Raheem]
Dawud was in shock.
1165
01:01:11,139 --> 01:01:13,403
He had never been exposed to
anything like that.
1166
01:01:14,478 --> 01:01:16,241
I can see the fear in his face.
1167
01:01:20,312 --> 01:01:23,547
I was looking at Dawud
and Salih, my friends.
1168
01:01:24,249 --> 01:01:28,055
Their lives had been
so tragically affected.
1169
01:01:29,685 --> 01:01:32,961
I was in a position to stop it,
and I didn't stop it.
1170
01:01:34,527 --> 01:01:36,030
I...
1171
01:01:37,228 --> 01:01:39,466
pushed forward
and they followed.
1172
01:01:39,935 --> 01:01:42,865
Went along with it.
It's not a good feeling.
1173
01:01:42,900 --> 01:01:44,104
Miserable feeling.
1174
01:01:46,709 --> 01:01:49,643
I have basically
a shy demeanor.
1175
01:01:49,678 --> 01:01:52,711
I even consider myself like a...
1176
01:01:52,746 --> 01:01:55,909
a self-diagnosed, uh,
1177
01:01:56,211 --> 01:01:59,223
Asperger's-- [chuckles]
1178
01:01:59,258 --> 01:02:01,319
You know, uh, syndrome.
1179
01:02:03,422 --> 01:02:05,293
[Shu'aib Raheem]
He was going to
Brooklyn College.
1180
01:02:05,562 --> 01:02:07,491
He was a street sketcher.
1181
01:02:08,127 --> 01:02:10,959
He would sketch
people's photograph
1182
01:02:11,094 --> 01:02:12,526
for five, ten dollars.
1183
01:02:12,561 --> 01:02:15,839
And... [exhales]
with pencil and charcoal.
1184
01:02:17,474 --> 01:02:18,774
That's how good he was.
1185
01:02:18,810 --> 01:02:21,203
He could look at you and just...
do it like that.
1186
01:02:21,239 --> 01:02:22,637
And people would pay him
for that.
1187
01:02:23,748 --> 01:02:27,015
But what was phenomenal
about him was his...
1188
01:02:29,446 --> 01:02:32,251
He could blow that horn.
Lord have mercy. Mm!
1189
01:02:32,654 --> 01:02:34,390
He would practice...
1190
01:02:34,426 --> 01:02:36,255
[call to prayer sounding]
1191
01:02:37,988 --> 01:02:41,029
[man chanting]
1192
01:02:47,572 --> 01:02:48,900
[Jerry Riccio]
The quiet guy,
1193
01:02:48,935 --> 01:02:50,335
he put himself in harm's way.
1194
01:02:51,977 --> 01:02:54,812
He sat down next to me with
a weight right over his head
1195
01:02:55,813 --> 01:02:58,046
and I could have easily
killed him with it.
1196
01:02:58,845 --> 01:03:01,016
I nudged Cleve, I says,
1197
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:04,019
"I'll put it right in his head."
1198
01:03:05,950 --> 01:03:07,352
He was my gun guy.
1199
01:03:08,426 --> 01:03:09,684
Cleve was a good guy.
1200
01:03:10,461 --> 01:03:11,855
He had a glass eye.
1201
01:03:12,458 --> 01:03:14,723
He was like a weird look--
especially with that--
1202
01:03:15,359 --> 01:03:17,463
the glass eye,
it wasn't the best--
1203
01:03:18,032 --> 01:03:20,497
wasn't the best job
in the world.
1204
01:03:24,167 --> 01:03:25,804
I was in the service.
1205
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:27,911
I had a machine gun squad.
1206
01:03:29,611 --> 01:03:33,048
I says, "Who do you think
the most dangerous guy
in the store is?"
1207
01:03:34,312 --> 01:03:37,184
He says, "Them."
I said, "No. Me."
1208
01:03:42,284 --> 01:03:45,390
[Rosemary Catalano]
I don't think that they believed
they could get out alive.
1209
01:03:46,993 --> 01:03:48,426
It was a total stalemate.
1210
01:03:49,327 --> 01:03:52,100
Botched robbery,
killed a police officer.
1211
01:03:54,231 --> 01:03:55,565
It wasn't gonna end there.
1212
01:03:56,873 --> 01:03:58,832
They weren't gonna
walk out quietly.
1213
01:04:01,178 --> 01:04:04,244
[Harvey Schlossberg]
This is intense
hostage negotiation.
1214
01:04:04,846 --> 01:04:06,782
Am I gonna say the wrong thing,
1215
01:04:06,817 --> 01:04:10,377
and the person who is
a mild problem
1216
01:04:10,412 --> 01:04:12,747
all of a sudden becomes a rage.
1217
01:04:13,890 --> 01:04:15,987
God forbid,
if somebody gets killed,
1218
01:04:16,022 --> 01:04:17,587
you're gonna blame yourself.
1219
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:23,065
Harvey is enormously tuned in
to emotions.
1220
01:04:23,100 --> 01:04:26,464
whether they be his or
the people that are around him.
1221
01:04:27,667 --> 01:04:31,066
He's the product of
a very sensitive mother
and grandmother.
1222
01:04:31,569 --> 01:04:34,637
His grandmother came from
Russia to be safe.
1223
01:04:35,247 --> 01:04:36,871
The pogroms,
1224
01:04:36,907 --> 01:04:39,917
they would surround
the Jewish communities
and kill people.
1225
01:04:41,347 --> 01:04:44,014
Jews have experienced
lots of suffering
1226
01:04:44,049 --> 01:04:45,714
and psychological pain.
1227
01:04:48,089 --> 01:04:50,455
I have a need to
make people better.
1228
01:04:51,958 --> 01:04:53,788
That's a crazy need.
1229
01:04:54,023 --> 01:04:57,066
[♪]
1230
01:04:59,399 --> 01:05:00,996
[Jerry Riccio]
How do you get out of the store?
1231
01:05:01,598 --> 01:05:04,341
Twelve people aren't
running down the stairs
1232
01:05:04,376 --> 01:05:05,503
and out the door.
1233
01:05:07,579 --> 01:05:09,408
I took out my pocket knife.
1234
01:05:10,708 --> 01:05:13,951
Watching them, I could keep
my arm behind the wall,
1235
01:05:15,644 --> 01:05:17,947
and draw the line with
the knife,
1236
01:05:18,449 --> 01:05:22,289
down, across, up,
down, across, up.
1237
01:05:23,819 --> 01:05:25,927
The little white dust
would fall on the floor,
1238
01:05:25,962 --> 01:05:28,097
I would smooth it out
with my foot.
1239
01:05:29,324 --> 01:05:30,462
Took a long time.
1240
01:05:31,827 --> 01:05:33,601
The people that were
sitting against the wall,
1241
01:05:33,636 --> 01:05:36,798
terrified, tears.
1242
01:05:38,106 --> 01:05:40,503
I can't tell 'em
what my intentions were.
1243
01:05:40,672 --> 01:05:43,379
I didn't want anybody
blurting out any information
1244
01:05:43,414 --> 01:05:44,639
out of fear.
1245
01:05:44,808 --> 01:05:46,883
"Let me go and I'll tell you
what they're up to.
1246
01:05:46,919 --> 01:05:49,844
He's got a gun.
He cut a hole out in the wall."
1247
01:05:50,786 --> 01:05:52,484
You-- You're nervous.
1248
01:05:55,759 --> 01:05:57,489
The gun is in your waist.
1249
01:05:58,522 --> 01:05:59,953
I don't know
what's gonna happen.
1250
01:06:01,457 --> 01:06:03,099
The leader comes over to me.
1251
01:06:03,135 --> 01:06:05,396
I put my hand on the gun.
I don't have to take it out,
1252
01:06:05,431 --> 01:06:07,168
I could shoot him
right through the coat.
1253
01:06:07,370 --> 01:06:10,136
I went over there and I see
some men behind the counter.
1254
01:06:10,639 --> 01:06:13,037
I said,
"What the hell are you doin'?
Get your ass out of here."
1255
01:06:13,473 --> 01:06:15,506
You know, "Get your butt
back on the other side."
1256
01:06:15,608 --> 01:06:17,144
Riccio was one of 'em,
I said, "Man, I told you--"
1257
01:06:17,179 --> 01:06:18,506
He said, "All right,
all right, all right.
1258
01:06:18,542 --> 01:06:20,514
It's not that easy
to kill anybody.
1259
01:06:21,650 --> 01:06:24,478
And people turn around
and say to you, "He's black,"
this, that.
1260
01:06:24,513 --> 01:06:26,221
It's not easy to kill anybody.
1261
01:06:28,392 --> 01:06:31,356
[♪]
1262
01:06:31,391 --> 01:06:34,030
[Shu'aib Raheem]
I was layin' down upstairs
1263
01:06:34,065 --> 01:06:37,199
trying to figure out
how'd I get in this mess?
1264
01:06:38,001 --> 01:06:40,070
Why did I do this?
Why, why, why?
1265
01:06:41,973 --> 01:06:44,536
Takes a lot for a man to say
"I'm afraid."
1266
01:06:45,644 --> 01:06:47,074
You know how we are as men.
1267
01:06:47,209 --> 01:06:49,442
Hard enough to even
talk about feelings.
1268
01:06:51,743 --> 01:06:54,614
Fear is what drove me
every minute I was in there,
1269
01:06:55,016 --> 01:06:56,682
that I was afraid to come out.
1270
01:06:57,218 --> 01:06:59,248
Scared to death of
what might happen.
1271
01:06:59,584 --> 01:07:01,751
Fear, fear, fear,
you know, it's-- it's--
1272
01:07:02,153 --> 01:07:03,423
it's crippling.
1273
01:07:07,028 --> 01:07:08,791
A gun don't make you a man.
1274
01:07:10,063 --> 01:07:11,531
At the end of the day,
1275
01:07:11,900 --> 01:07:13,532
doesn't make you safe.
1276
01:07:16,607 --> 01:07:18,075
Don't be afraid.
1277
01:07:22,579 --> 01:07:24,037
[sniffles]
1278
01:07:25,841 --> 01:07:27,612
[Jerry Riccio]
The hostages were terrified.
1279
01:07:28,944 --> 01:07:32,182
The black girl named Fonnie,
tears were goin',
1280
01:07:32,217 --> 01:07:33,717
shook her up so badly.
1281
01:07:34,850 --> 01:07:36,923
When I go to get one of
the walkie-talkies,
1282
01:07:36,958 --> 01:07:38,654
I'm asking for Kotex.
1283
01:07:38,689 --> 01:07:40,790
Fonnie had gotten her period
in the store.
1284
01:07:42,191 --> 01:07:45,233
[♪]
1285
01:07:45,435 --> 01:07:49,472
And I really believe that that's
when she had her miscarriage
1286
01:07:49,641 --> 01:07:51,064
'cause she was pregnant.
1287
01:07:54,806 --> 01:07:58,511
That was enough to send it
over the edge as far as...
1288
01:07:59,377 --> 01:08:01,151
this baby was not making it.
1289
01:08:01,953 --> 01:08:06,051
Oh, my God! Oh, my God!
Lord have mercy.
1290
01:08:06,086 --> 01:08:08,125
[muttering in Arabic]
1291
01:08:09,420 --> 01:08:11,121
I'm so sorry to hear that.
1292
01:08:11,323 --> 01:08:13,328
She had the nervous breakdown.
1293
01:08:14,931 --> 01:08:16,529
Never really came out of it.
1294
01:08:18,230 --> 01:08:19,860
Not sleeping at night.
1295
01:08:19,896 --> 01:08:22,904
Medication is rippin' up
your body on the inside.
1296
01:08:22,939 --> 01:08:24,439
You don't want to do anything.
1297
01:08:25,442 --> 01:08:28,542
And you still have a family
you need to feed and maintain.
1298
01:08:29,178 --> 01:08:31,313
I'm an only child,
just me and her.
1299
01:08:32,942 --> 01:08:35,515
My parents separated
right after this happened.
1300
01:08:43,195 --> 01:08:45,954
[Alice Buckner]
I feel like I lost
both my parents.
1301
01:08:47,697 --> 01:08:49,727
[sniffling]
1302
01:08:57,704 --> 01:09:00,243
They have no idea what they
put people through.
1303
01:09:04,148 --> 01:09:07,275
People who are injured
and hurt and suffer,
1304
01:09:07,311 --> 01:09:08,746
even oppressed,
1305
01:09:10,351 --> 01:09:13,188
can become blinded by
their own hurt,
1306
01:09:13,223 --> 01:09:15,790
and destroy the lives
of so many people
1307
01:09:15,826 --> 01:09:17,392
who did you no harm.
1308
01:09:18,786 --> 01:09:20,386
That's the tragedy of it all.
1309
01:09:21,056 --> 01:09:23,860
When the victim becomes
that which they fear.
1310
01:09:29,639 --> 01:09:32,671
[♪]
1311
01:09:35,405 --> 01:09:37,445
[traffic noise]
1312
01:09:38,012 --> 01:09:40,041
[clock ticking]
1313
01:09:43,988 --> 01:09:46,014
-[gunshot]
-[indistinct dialog]
1314
01:09:46,657 --> 01:09:48,082
[gunshot]
1315
01:09:49,728 --> 01:09:52,394
[indistinct chatter]
1316
01:09:53,158 --> 01:09:54,863
[gunshot]
1317
01:09:54,898 --> 01:09:56,926
[police radio chatter]
1318
01:09:57,602 --> 01:09:59,061
[gunshot]
1319
01:09:59,397 --> 01:10:01,436
[indistinct chatter]
1320
01:10:04,834 --> 01:10:06,502
[Brian Tuohy]
Four blasts of gunfire.
1321
01:10:06,537 --> 01:10:08,142
Maybe they killed the hostages.
1322
01:10:08,178 --> 01:10:10,204
-[coughing]
-Where's your plan?
1323
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:12,546
What plan do you have now that
they're killing the hostages?
1324
01:10:14,743 --> 01:10:16,042
If I was the commanding officer,
1325
01:10:16,077 --> 01:10:17,749
I would have taken action
against them.
1326
01:10:18,350 --> 01:10:19,718
Probably with snipers.
1327
01:10:23,054 --> 01:10:25,053
If you don't fight
fire with fire,
you're never gonna win.
1328
01:10:25,959 --> 01:10:28,993
[♪]
1329
01:10:29,029 --> 01:10:31,059
[gunshot]
1330
01:10:33,028 --> 01:10:35,595
Just move one finger,
just move a pinkie,
1331
01:10:35,931 --> 01:10:38,005
just give me
a reason to kill you,
1332
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:40,310
and I will do it gladly.
1333
01:10:42,270 --> 01:10:44,908
We go back to the coffee table
and laugh about it.
1334
01:10:44,943 --> 01:10:48,741
"We killed a guy. Yeah, Yeah,
it had a happy ending.
1335
01:10:48,977 --> 01:10:50,947
And you ended up dead.
So, ha, ha."
1336
01:10:52,982 --> 01:10:54,688
[reporter]
The situation here in Brooklyn
1337
01:10:54,723 --> 01:10:57,622
has gotten much more tense in
the last few moments.
1338
01:10:57,657 --> 01:11:00,020
-[gunshot]
-We heard nine or six shots
1339
01:11:00,056 --> 01:11:01,963
ring out from
the sporting goods store.
1340
01:11:01,998 --> 01:11:04,026
[police radio chatter]
1341
01:11:04,492 --> 01:11:07,535
[♪]
1342
01:11:16,611 --> 01:11:18,513
[man on radio]
Where are the hostages now?
1343
01:11:20,481 --> 01:11:22,543
The railing that went
around the store
1344
01:11:22,579 --> 01:11:23,819
on the second floor,
1345
01:11:24,087 --> 01:11:25,946
they had all the guns lined up.
1346
01:11:26,149 --> 01:11:29,615
They loaded them all
so that if anybody came in,
1347
01:11:30,118 --> 01:11:32,021
they wouldn't have to stop
to re-load.
1348
01:11:34,598 --> 01:11:37,393
Now the gunmen come upstairs,
they brought the hose up,
1349
01:11:38,095 --> 01:11:40,634
He says, "Take off your clothes,
we're gonna wash you.
1350
01:11:41,999 --> 01:11:44,902
We're gonna die,
you gotta go to Allah clean."
1351
01:11:47,638 --> 01:11:49,404
Maybe they were gonna kill me.
1352
01:11:50,274 --> 01:11:52,811
Maybe the cops
shooting in the store
were gonna kill me.
1353
01:11:54,846 --> 01:11:57,311
They don't look at the shape
over the desk.
1354
01:11:57,780 --> 01:11:59,521
That's a staircase going up.
1355
01:12:00,523 --> 01:12:02,749
If you put a knife against
a sheet rock wall,
1356
01:12:02,785 --> 01:12:04,185
it doesn't make any noise.
1357
01:12:04,853 --> 01:12:06,990
I felt the knife go through.
1358
01:12:08,496 --> 01:12:10,092
And then I pulled
the piece out...
1359
01:12:12,002 --> 01:12:13,161
and put it back in.
1360
01:12:14,335 --> 01:12:16,333
We have the escape plan made.
1361
01:12:16,369 --> 01:12:18,402
[indistinct chatter]
1362
01:12:19,072 --> 01:12:20,970
-[man] Whoever's gonna begin--
-All right, I'm gonna begin it,
1363
01:12:21,006 --> 01:12:23,038
but I cant begin it because
I'm being squeezed.
1364
01:12:23,074 --> 01:12:24,575
-Give me a little room.
-[man] Move back, please.
1365
01:12:24,878 --> 01:12:27,044
Help out a little bit, will ya?
Back up. Come on.
1366
01:12:27,813 --> 01:12:29,109
-Give us a little room.
-[man 2] All right.
1367
01:12:29,144 --> 01:12:30,383
[Benjamin Ward]
This morning, as you know,
1368
01:12:30,419 --> 01:12:32,049
there were
several gunshots fired,
1369
01:12:32,085 --> 01:12:34,188
and they informed us that they
merely wanted to let us to know
1370
01:12:34,223 --> 01:12:35,822
that they were still there.
1371
01:12:35,857 --> 01:12:37,356
We immediately spoke to them
on the phone and we told them
1372
01:12:37,391 --> 01:12:38,428
we knew that they were there.
1373
01:12:39,431 --> 01:12:42,631
[man] Have you made any decision
as to a time limit?
1374
01:12:42,666 --> 01:12:45,565
I-- I could just say this
to you, we have plenty of time,
1375
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:47,870
and we have not made
any decisions on time.
1376
01:12:47,906 --> 01:12:49,934
[indistinct chatter]
1377
01:12:51,575 --> 01:12:54,572
[Al Baker]
The Harvey school of
psychology is
1378
01:12:54,941 --> 01:12:57,913
you're lookin' to find that key
that opens that lock.
1379
01:12:57,949 --> 01:12:59,307
to that guy's head.
1380
01:12:59,910 --> 01:13:01,946
[indistinct bullhorn
announcement]
1381
01:13:09,387 --> 01:13:10,955
My mother?
1382
01:13:11,457 --> 01:13:13,496
[continues indistinctly]
1383
01:13:18,227 --> 01:13:22,566
"Son, Ib'n, salaam alaikum,
baby, come out.
1384
01:13:22,969 --> 01:13:25,101
It's gonna be okay,
they're not gonna hurt you."
1385
01:13:26,310 --> 01:13:28,335
[Gloria Robinson
continues indistinctly]
1386
01:13:29,237 --> 01:13:31,442
[Harvey Schlossberg]
Family. I usually tell--
1387
01:13:31,477 --> 01:13:32,647
I-- Don't bring them in.
1388
01:13:33,216 --> 01:13:35,248
If they had a healthy family,
1389
01:13:35,284 --> 01:13:36,783
they wouldn't be in here.
1390
01:13:40,385 --> 01:13:42,057
[Shu'aib Raheem]
I used to have conversations
with my mother that
1391
01:13:42,092 --> 01:13:43,115
that was, like, deep.
1392
01:13:43,151 --> 01:13:45,457
She would be up all night
reading.
1393
01:13:45,492 --> 01:13:48,157
History, science, philosophy.
1394
01:13:50,235 --> 01:13:52,535
She was like a mentor,
a teacher.
1395
01:13:54,235 --> 01:13:55,769
She was fragile.
1396
01:13:56,502 --> 01:13:58,107
She was an alcoholic.
1397
01:13:58,477 --> 01:14:01,077
And I used to get very defensive
and angry with her
1398
01:14:01,112 --> 01:14:03,043
when she was criticizing me.
1399
01:14:03,245 --> 01:14:04,712
I thought she was naive.
1400
01:14:04,747 --> 01:14:07,143
They were just trying to use her
to get me to come out.
1401
01:14:08,743 --> 01:14:09,849
To get shot.
1402
01:14:12,820 --> 01:14:15,214
When I fired the shots at
the tank, she knew.
1403
01:14:15,250 --> 01:14:17,351
She didn't try to
talk to me anymore.
1404
01:14:25,635 --> 01:14:28,637
She was so-- I broke her heart,
Lord have mercy.
1405
01:14:29,807 --> 01:14:32,839
[♪]
1406
01:14:33,872 --> 01:14:36,445
We started hearing them--
[buzzing]
1407
01:14:36,480 --> 01:14:38,343
They comin' through the wall
in the basement
1408
01:14:38,378 --> 01:14:40,445
while they talking
1409
01:14:40,480 --> 01:14:42,178
so nice on the phone.
1410
01:14:43,555 --> 01:14:46,248
The radio told us that
the police was on the roof.
1411
01:14:46,784 --> 01:14:48,481
The place was surrounded.
1412
01:14:49,358 --> 01:14:51,253
We heard this big helicopter.
1413
01:14:53,625 --> 01:14:55,255
Hundreds of police.
1414
01:14:55,291 --> 01:14:57,699
They got this special team
they put together,
1415
01:14:57,734 --> 01:14:59,534
they gettin' ready to come in
and storm the store,
1416
01:14:59,570 --> 01:15:01,869
and you givin' me these niceties
over the phone?
1417
01:15:02,204 --> 01:15:03,496
You're lying, man.
1418
01:15:07,969 --> 01:15:09,802
[indistinct chatter]
1419
01:15:09,838 --> 01:15:11,678
[man on bullhorn]
They say that they are gonna
die in that building
1420
01:15:11,713 --> 01:15:13,275
and they want us to
come in and get them.
1421
01:15:14,016 --> 01:15:17,048
[♪]
1422
01:15:19,558 --> 01:15:21,789
[Al Baker]
The perps certainly
had evil intent.
1423
01:15:23,258 --> 01:15:25,859
Violence. Hate.
1424
01:15:26,756 --> 01:15:28,092
Kill the hostages.
1425
01:15:29,398 --> 01:15:31,229
Go out in a blaze of glory.
1426
01:15:31,932 --> 01:15:34,098
We didn't want to go out in
a blaze of glory.
1427
01:15:35,033 --> 01:15:36,771
But, hell, if you're gonna
execute me...
1428
01:15:38,606 --> 01:15:39,968
and I got all these guns
in here,
1429
01:15:40,004 --> 01:15:41,402
what do you think
I'm gonna do?
1430
01:15:42,410 --> 01:15:43,976
I'm gonna defend myself.
1431
01:15:49,052 --> 01:15:50,549
[whistle]
1432
01:15:50,585 --> 01:15:51,981
[Jerry Riccio]
All of a sudden,
1433
01:15:52,017 --> 01:15:54,382
I heard what appeared to be
a whistle.
1434
01:15:54,750 --> 01:15:56,318
[whistle]
1435
01:15:59,256 --> 01:16:00,862
This is it, they're
gettin' ready to come in.
1436
01:16:00,897 --> 01:16:03,061
This is it. We just kept sayin',
"This is it, this is it."
1437
01:16:07,562 --> 01:16:11,135
We went downstairs,
listened to the basement door.
1438
01:16:12,137 --> 01:16:14,007
[Jerry Riccio]
They all ran down the stairs,
1439
01:16:14,243 --> 01:16:15,744
left us alone.
1440
01:16:16,976 --> 01:16:19,946
Well... that's the chance
you gotta take.
1441
01:16:22,417 --> 01:16:24,016
I gave Cleve my gun.
1442
01:16:25,415 --> 01:16:27,756
I told him everybody had to
go through the hole.
1443
01:16:29,383 --> 01:16:31,920
[Alice Buckner]
My mom was cryin', bad.
1444
01:16:32,155 --> 01:16:34,125
Cleve took one look at her
and said,
1445
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:36,666
"If I don't help her,
she's gonna get us killed."
1446
01:16:38,062 --> 01:16:40,263
Pull yourself together,
get your tissue,
1447
01:16:40,829 --> 01:16:42,301
stop cryin',
1448
01:16:42,770 --> 01:16:45,466
and let's go so we can
get out of here.
1449
01:16:48,239 --> 01:16:49,944
[Rosemary Catalano]
The adrenaline's pumpin'.
1450
01:16:50,013 --> 01:16:51,142
Just go.
1451
01:16:51,744 --> 01:16:54,117
There's debris on the stairs,
1452
01:16:54,152 --> 01:16:55,913
and Jerry says to Cleve,
1453
01:16:55,948 --> 01:16:58,217
"I told you to clean
the staircase."
1454
01:16:58,253 --> 01:17:00,283
[laughing]
1455
01:17:03,123 --> 01:17:04,954
[Jerry Riccio]
Everybody had to
go through the hole.
1456
01:17:05,023 --> 01:17:07,323
"Okay, Cleve.
Hold onto the gun."
1457
01:17:09,595 --> 01:17:12,130
[Al Baker]
We have people on the roof
to help contain the perimeter.
1458
01:17:13,364 --> 01:17:17,234
We had the Smith & Wesson
Model 76 submachine gun.
1459
01:17:18,533 --> 01:17:21,535
If the perps come out
blasting at the cops,
1460
01:17:22,370 --> 01:17:24,043
you're gonna have to
return fire.
1461
01:17:26,113 --> 01:17:29,317
Hatch opens up, out comes
a Black man with a gun,
1462
01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:32,579
and Casey and the team
point their guns at him.
1463
01:17:34,992 --> 01:17:38,024
[♪]
1464
01:17:38,692 --> 01:17:40,525
Cleve's holding my handgun.
1465
01:17:40,793 --> 01:17:42,695
"There's a handgun comin' up.
1466
01:17:42,998 --> 01:17:45,663
It's mine, I got a permit
for it. Don't shoot!"
1467
01:17:46,232 --> 01:17:49,964
Harvey taught it's important for
the police officers
1468
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:52,239
to hold back and not fire,
1469
01:17:52,574 --> 01:17:55,641
because once one officer fires,
1470
01:17:55,676 --> 01:17:57,571
it's really a domino effect.
1471
01:17:58,683 --> 01:18:02,051
Hormones such as testosterone
kick into play
1472
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:04,545
and push men to do things.
1473
01:18:04,848 --> 01:18:06,085
What a disaster.
1474
01:18:07,990 --> 01:18:12,058
Holding your fire is what
negotiation is about.
1475
01:18:14,398 --> 01:18:17,898
Now, why that particular guy
1476
01:18:17,934 --> 01:18:20,297
popped open the hatch
with a gun in his hand...
1477
01:18:22,173 --> 01:18:23,696
defies my logic.
1478
01:18:24,665 --> 01:18:27,037
And it turns out,
he was an escaping hostage.
1479
01:18:27,072 --> 01:18:28,976
Police were able to
understand that.
1480
01:18:29,875 --> 01:18:31,814
Damn good weapons restraint.
1481
01:18:32,515 --> 01:18:34,984
A very remarkable escape.
1482
01:18:35,019 --> 01:18:38,051
[♪]
1483
01:18:50,298 --> 01:18:53,330
[♪]
1484
01:18:54,433 --> 01:18:57,235
We're done. We're finished.
We're not hostages anymore.
1485
01:18:57,734 --> 01:19:00,777
[♪]
1486
01:19:04,114 --> 01:19:07,377
[reporter]
Officers ran the hostages
to cars outside...
1487
01:19:07,412 --> 01:19:10,512
-...the line of fire.
-There I am. Oh, my gosh.
1488
01:19:10,547 --> 01:19:12,680
[reporter]
The hostages
broke through the wall
1489
01:19:12,715 --> 01:19:14,547
-and raced to
the roof of the store.
-Oh, my God.
1490
01:19:14,582 --> 01:19:16,755
The police then got them
off the roof,
1491
01:19:16,790 --> 01:19:18,487
and finally took them away.
1492
01:19:23,892 --> 01:19:25,197
Wow.
1493
01:19:30,604 --> 01:19:32,139
[clock ticking]
1494
01:19:32,174 --> 01:19:34,206
[Shu'aib Raheem]
I walked over there
and it was quiet.
1495
01:19:35,407 --> 01:19:37,907
I walked a little further
and I seen this hole,
1496
01:19:37,942 --> 01:19:39,277
and I said, "Oh, sh--"
1497
01:19:39,578 --> 01:19:40,674
Whoo!
1498
01:19:43,646 --> 01:19:45,712
[Al Baker]
The suspects
lost their collateral.
1499
01:19:46,757 --> 01:19:49,051
That must have been
when they realized,
1500
01:19:49,253 --> 01:19:51,223
"We're mince meat now.
We're dead."
1501
01:19:55,523 --> 01:19:58,692
I guess it's all over now,
you know?
1502
01:20:01,606 --> 01:20:04,797
Seeing a corpse,
I feel like crying.
1503
01:20:05,541 --> 01:20:07,069
It really affects me.
1504
01:20:07,338 --> 01:20:10,308
I think a human life
is such a precious gift.
1505
01:20:10,976 --> 01:20:13,308
You seen where the guy was?
1506
01:20:13,610 --> 01:20:15,517
[Harvey Schlossberg]
The crowd, they become angry.
1507
01:20:15,552 --> 01:20:16,951
Don't give me all that bullshit.
1508
01:20:16,987 --> 01:20:18,745
[Harvey Schlossberg]
"Stay out. Don't kill them."
1509
01:20:19,556 --> 01:20:21,649
The crowd got out of hand.
1510
01:20:21,983 --> 01:20:25,026
[♪]
1511
01:20:30,457 --> 01:20:31,767
[reporter]
An ugly scene
1512
01:20:31,803 --> 01:20:33,828
in which police are just
trying their best
1513
01:20:33,863 --> 01:20:36,833
to keep them out of the area
that they have barricaded off.
1514
01:20:36,868 --> 01:20:38,269
In the meantime,
1515
01:20:38,305 --> 01:20:41,370
we have got all kinds of
missiles being thrown.
1516
01:20:41,406 --> 01:20:43,778
Probably even bricks
but definitely glass
1517
01:20:43,814 --> 01:20:45,712
as hundreds of people
are running
1518
01:20:45,747 --> 01:20:47,279
in every which direction.
1519
01:20:48,577 --> 01:20:50,684
[Al Sheppard]
Molotov cocktails, bricks,
1520
01:20:50,719 --> 01:20:52,553
they pushed the barricades over.
1521
01:20:52,655 --> 01:20:53,912
The shit's hittin' the fan.
1522
01:20:54,715 --> 01:20:56,519
You might have a massacre
on your hands.
1523
01:20:59,420 --> 01:21:01,095
America's built on violence.
1524
01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:02,855
And guns.
1525
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:05,261
That's-- That's our nature.
1526
01:21:05,563 --> 01:21:09,035
John Wayne, Hopalong Cassidy,
uh, cowboys and Indians.
1527
01:21:09,071 --> 01:21:11,369
It's always-- You know,
we're a violent country.
1528
01:21:13,368 --> 01:21:15,241
And we were built on violence.
1529
01:21:16,271 --> 01:21:17,375
And it's unfortunate.
1530
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:20,642
[indistinct chatter]
1531
01:21:22,746 --> 01:21:25,648
[reporter]
As we look around,
police are massing,
1532
01:21:25,683 --> 01:21:28,721
and some kind of move against
the sporting goods store
1533
01:21:28,756 --> 01:21:30,553
seems to be upcoming.
1534
01:21:30,956 --> 01:21:33,495
[indistinct chatter]
1535
01:21:33,530 --> 01:21:36,393
[man on bullhorn]
The gunmen stated they are
gonna die in that building
1536
01:21:36,428 --> 01:21:38,132
and they want us to
come in and get them.
1537
01:21:39,630 --> 01:21:42,296
[Shu'aib Raheem]
At the darkest moment
of my life,
1538
01:21:42,699 --> 01:21:46,569
I had went so far out of bounds
of right and wrong
1539
01:21:48,274 --> 01:21:50,947
that I didn't see
no way back for me.
1540
01:21:53,612 --> 01:21:55,917
[Harvey Schlossberg]
People think in
a train of thought.
1541
01:21:56,220 --> 01:21:59,417
One thought
pulls the next thought
pulls the next thought.
1542
01:22:00,558 --> 01:22:02,618
I'm the thought interrupter.
1543
01:22:04,891 --> 01:22:06,257
I told the commanders,
1544
01:22:06,293 --> 01:22:08,860
"No, I'm not a person
who kills other people.
1545
01:22:08,895 --> 01:22:10,362
I want them out alive."
1546
01:22:11,435 --> 01:22:13,035
Hold your fire.
1547
01:22:15,638 --> 01:22:17,300
It was just us in there.
1548
01:22:17,336 --> 01:22:19,470
And still they didn't storm
the store.
1549
01:22:21,739 --> 01:22:24,710
[Al Baker] Even though we all
bleed blue for poor Steve,
1550
01:22:25,346 --> 01:22:28,473
let's use our minds, let's use
our hearts and souls
1551
01:22:28,509 --> 01:22:30,049
and let's fix this problem
1552
01:22:30,084 --> 01:22:32,219
before it gets to
the violent stage.
1553
01:22:33,657 --> 01:22:35,486
It's an internal strength,
1554
01:22:35,521 --> 01:22:39,820
the opposite of the external,
explosive strength.
1555
01:22:41,191 --> 01:22:43,032
That's true manhood.
1556
01:22:45,261 --> 01:22:47,663
Violence is a weakness.
1557
01:22:50,304 --> 01:22:52,174
[Shu'aib Raheem]
"Please, reconnect the phone."
1558
01:22:52,810 --> 01:22:55,005
So Salih reconnected it,
and I said,
1559
01:22:55,041 --> 01:22:57,541
"Well, okay. Let's talk."
1560
01:23:00,178 --> 01:23:02,643
Benjamin Ward was more calm.
1561
01:23:02,845 --> 01:23:06,518
He was Black, he understood
our fears of the police.
1562
01:23:06,687 --> 01:23:08,047
Hey! Back!
1563
01:23:08,283 --> 01:23:09,916
Hey! Come on!
1564
01:23:13,458 --> 01:23:15,029
[Shu'aib Raheem]
We also got that assurance
1565
01:23:15,065 --> 01:23:17,033
that they wouldn't try to
beat us to death,
1566
01:23:18,300 --> 01:23:21,763
exact this retribution
which they were known for.
1567
01:23:22,673 --> 01:23:24,770
We then spent a couple of hours
1568
01:23:25,005 --> 01:23:27,675
in just dialog on the telephone
1569
01:23:27,810 --> 01:23:30,005
to peck away at their philosophy
1570
01:23:30,174 --> 01:23:31,979
that the way to paradise
1571
01:23:32,014 --> 01:23:33,840
was to die inside of
that building.
1572
01:23:33,875 --> 01:23:36,544
And make them see
if they had a story to tell,
1573
01:23:36,813 --> 01:23:38,953
if there was a message
to come out of what they did,
1574
01:23:38,988 --> 01:23:40,749
that they would have to
remain alive.
1575
01:23:42,385 --> 01:23:44,291
[indistinct radio transission]
1576
01:23:44,893 --> 01:23:46,522
They may want to commit suicide
1577
01:23:46,558 --> 01:23:48,889
and get the police officer
to do it for them.
1578
01:23:50,892 --> 01:23:54,400
The surrender ritual
is the most critical part.
1579
01:23:55,766 --> 01:23:58,536
Nobody really knows what
the next move is gonna be.
1580
01:23:59,335 --> 01:24:01,374
[indistinct chatter]
1581
01:24:02,511 --> 01:24:05,543
[♪]
1582
01:24:07,547 --> 01:24:09,547
[Shu'aib Raheem]
They wanted me
and nobody else...
1583
01:24:10,412 --> 01:24:12,484
to lay down my weapons
1584
01:24:13,550 --> 01:24:15,250
Walking out there
literally exposed.
1585
01:24:15,285 --> 01:24:17,324
[police radio chatter]
1586
01:24:18,959 --> 01:24:20,228
I had to trust them.
1587
01:24:20,727 --> 01:24:22,656
[man]
1588
01:24:22,691 --> 01:24:25,391
Benjamin Ward
actually walked down
1589
01:24:25,593 --> 01:24:27,301
and stood in front of the store.
1590
01:24:28,436 --> 01:24:30,766
Held his hands out and showed
that he was unarmed.
1591
01:24:33,234 --> 01:24:34,902
[man]
1592
01:24:40,544 --> 01:24:42,151
[Shu'aib Raheem]
I surrendered to him.
1593
01:24:45,753 --> 01:24:46,848
It was over.
1594
01:24:56,657 --> 01:24:59,865
[Gerald Lefcourt]
Once the terrible shooting of
the police officers occurred,
1595
01:25:00,301 --> 01:25:02,396
the leadership in
the police department
1596
01:25:02,432 --> 01:25:03,832
did all the right things.
1597
01:25:04,509 --> 01:25:06,366
Negotiations...
1598
01:25:06,401 --> 01:25:07,968
rather than force.
1599
01:25:09,905 --> 01:25:11,879
We realized these guys
didn't want to be there.
1600
01:25:11,914 --> 01:25:13,539
They got caught in a robbery,
1601
01:25:13,575 --> 01:25:15,084
and they were forced back,
1602
01:25:15,119 --> 01:25:17,949
and they were forced into
a hostage situation.
1603
01:25:18,318 --> 01:25:22,150
What experience
have they ever had
1604
01:25:22,186 --> 01:25:23,484
with the police?
1605
01:25:23,653 --> 01:25:25,657
It's all been negative.
You know.
1606
01:25:25,692 --> 01:25:28,290
All of their brethren have
either been arrested or beat up
1607
01:25:28,325 --> 01:25:30,191
or mistreated or abused.
1608
01:25:30,794 --> 01:25:35,034
Uh, you know, cops
aren't known historically
1609
01:25:35,336 --> 01:25:37,868
for being the most kindest,
gentlest people.
1610
01:25:38,671 --> 01:25:43,078
It was revolutionary to diffuse
a deadly situation.
1611
01:25:43,113 --> 01:25:46,182
That's now your responsibility
as a cop.
1612
01:25:48,183 --> 01:25:50,984
We started to transcend
street justice.
1613
01:25:51,286 --> 01:25:52,555
[reporter]
Were you one of the hostages?
1614
01:25:53,224 --> 01:25:55,349
Sir, can you tell us
what it was like inside there?
1615
01:25:56,018 --> 01:25:57,791
Can you say anything?
Was your life threatened at all?
1616
01:25:57,827 --> 01:25:59,855
[indistinct yelling]
1617
01:26:00,288 --> 01:26:03,331
[♪]
1618
01:26:05,132 --> 01:26:07,159
[camera shutters clicking]
1619
01:26:14,243 --> 01:26:17,171
It's a Muslim name.
I can't pronounce it.
1620
01:26:17,207 --> 01:26:18,978
[laughter]
1621
01:26:19,013 --> 01:26:20,310
Shu'aib Abdul Rhaheem.
1622
01:26:20,345 --> 01:26:22,449
Alias, Shu'aib Abdul Al Raheem.
1623
01:26:22,852 --> 01:26:24,943
[indistinct dialog]
1624
01:26:24,979 --> 01:26:26,354
[detective]
Attempted murder, robbery.
1625
01:26:28,855 --> 01:26:31,854
[♪]
1626
01:26:31,890 --> 01:26:34,230
[Shu'aib Raheem]
First one in my family
to go to prison.
1627
01:26:36,491 --> 01:26:37,994
I hurt my family.
1628
01:26:38,029 --> 01:26:41,061
[♪]
1629
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:46,899
[Jerry Riccio]
The quiet guy didn't do anything
1630
01:26:46,934 --> 01:26:48,809
to make himself look like
a bad guy.
1631
01:26:49,345 --> 01:26:53,240
Putting him in prison with
hardcore bad guys
1632
01:26:53,675 --> 01:26:54,912
would have been the wrong thing.
1633
01:26:55,514 --> 01:26:56,780
[interviewer]
He's still in prison.
1634
01:26:58,348 --> 01:26:59,750
Maximum security.
1635
01:27:00,524 --> 01:27:01,917
Oh...
1636
01:27:05,925 --> 01:27:06,988
I--
1637
01:27:09,196 --> 01:27:10,926
You're sure, right? Right?
1638
01:27:12,569 --> 01:27:13,665
Whew.
1639
01:27:14,735 --> 01:27:17,471
The last guy in the world
I'd think maximum security.
1640
01:27:19,407 --> 01:27:21,770
I'm trying to put
all of this behind me.
1641
01:27:21,806 --> 01:27:24,071
You know what I'm saying?
Because like, uh,
1642
01:27:24,715 --> 01:27:26,007
I regret it all.
1643
01:27:27,910 --> 01:27:30,514
The fact that I participated
in this incident
1644
01:27:30,549 --> 01:27:32,750
you know, it--
I had to pay for it.
1645
01:27:33,917 --> 01:27:36,688
Forty-six years, I feel like
I've done my time.
1646
01:27:40,263 --> 01:27:43,995
I would like to be able to,
you know,
1647
01:27:44,564 --> 01:27:47,633
have, uh, some type of life
after this.
1648
01:27:48,432 --> 01:27:50,804
He wasn't the bad guy.
1649
01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:52,097
I don't think,
1650
01:27:52,132 --> 01:27:54,108
other than that little guy
that got shot,
1651
01:27:54,144 --> 01:27:56,609
I don't think any of 'em
were bad.
1652
01:28:01,113 --> 01:28:04,111
[Shu'aib Raheem]
In prison, you come face to face
with your demons.
1653
01:28:05,786 --> 01:28:09,490
People would suddenly become
very religious and spiritual.
1654
01:28:09,526 --> 01:28:12,460
What's driving them is their
sense of shame and guilt.
1655
01:28:13,997 --> 01:28:16,057
Their quest for forgiveness.
1656
01:28:17,266 --> 01:28:19,326
The ministers say,
"God forgive you."
1657
01:28:19,695 --> 01:28:21,403
It's not quite that simple.
1658
01:28:22,439 --> 01:28:26,270
You gotta walk back through
every bad decision,
1659
01:28:26,305 --> 01:28:28,003
every person you hurt.
1660
01:28:31,008 --> 01:28:34,312
Riccio didn't deserve me
putting a gun in his face.
1661
01:28:34,347 --> 01:28:36,845
My religion forbids that.
1662
01:28:36,881 --> 01:28:39,421
Police officers out there
doin' their job,
1663
01:28:39,457 --> 01:28:42,820
to even fire a weapon
in that direction was wrong.
1664
01:28:45,060 --> 01:28:48,089
Your sins. Face them.
1665
01:28:48,832 --> 01:28:50,757
It repulses you.
1666
01:28:50,792 --> 01:28:52,332
And until it repulses you,
1667
01:28:52,367 --> 01:28:54,436
you haven't really
confronted it.
1668
01:28:56,134 --> 01:28:59,006
I got a master's degree from
New York Theological Seminary
1669
01:28:59,041 --> 01:29:00,874
in Pastoral Counseling,
1670
01:29:00,910 --> 01:29:04,171
so I have the training
being the chaplain's aides
in prisons.
1671
01:29:07,478 --> 01:29:09,275
For over 35 years,
1672
01:29:09,311 --> 01:29:12,080
we were like the mediators,
we created the peace.
1673
01:29:13,817 --> 01:29:17,624
It-- It's--
It's very, um, uh...
1674
01:29:18,762 --> 01:29:20,192
meaningful.
1675
01:29:20,527 --> 01:29:23,691
It's very important that
he has come to
1676
01:29:23,726 --> 01:29:25,401
this level of understanding.
1677
01:29:29,170 --> 01:29:30,538
Should he be forgiven?
1678
01:29:30,905 --> 01:29:32,364
By God?
1679
01:29:33,438 --> 01:29:35,367
Yeah. He should be.
1680
01:29:36,243 --> 01:29:37,611
He should be forgiven.
1681
01:29:42,344 --> 01:29:45,949
It's not up to me to decide
whether he gets forgiven or not.
1682
01:29:47,188 --> 01:29:48,248
I don't forgive him.
1683
01:29:50,918 --> 01:29:53,121
Killing a cop is unforgivable.
1684
01:29:55,092 --> 01:29:58,927
That-- I-- I firmly believe
that he should have been
1685
01:29:58,962 --> 01:30:01,698
tried and convicted
of Steve Gilroy's murder
1686
01:30:01,733 --> 01:30:03,230
and he should have been
put to death.
1687
01:30:05,575 --> 01:30:08,168
I made a vow and a promise
that when I come home,
1688
01:30:08,203 --> 01:30:10,741
I'm gonna tackle this prison
industrial complex
1689
01:30:10,776 --> 01:30:12,838
by trying to stem the tide
of young people
1690
01:30:12,873 --> 01:30:13,977
even going to prison.
1691
01:30:14,980 --> 01:30:18,283
The children in this area are
suffering from PTSD
1692
01:30:18,318 --> 01:30:20,449
because of the violence.
1693
01:30:21,085 --> 01:30:24,185
You don't have to become that
which was done to you.
1694
01:30:24,992 --> 01:30:28,024
[♪]
1695
01:30:30,127 --> 01:30:31,296
[Jack Cambria]
The police department,
in general
1696
01:30:31,331 --> 01:30:32,598
doesn't know who he is.
1697
01:30:32,633 --> 01:30:34,195
The general public
doesn't know who he is.
1698
01:30:35,598 --> 01:30:36,963
But, very slowly,
1699
01:30:36,999 --> 01:30:38,672
police culture
started to change.
1700
01:30:39,505 --> 01:30:42,168
The NYPD is the birthplace.
1701
01:30:42,270 --> 01:30:44,478
Today, almost every
police agency in the world
1702
01:30:44,513 --> 01:30:47,140
has a version of
a hostage negotiation team.
1703
01:30:47,175 --> 01:30:49,246
[man] I want to get you
the help you need...
1704
01:30:49,282 --> 01:30:51,877
[Jack Cambria]
That's all the foundation
that Harvey put in place.
1705
01:30:52,413 --> 01:30:54,820
As long as it takes
for them to say,
"I had enough."
1706
01:30:54,855 --> 01:30:57,157
[Shu'aib Raheem]
I don't know
Mr. Harvey Schlossberg
1707
01:30:57,192 --> 01:30:59,123
but he saved my life.
1708
01:30:59,359 --> 01:31:01,453
my co-defendant's life,
1709
01:31:02,165 --> 01:31:04,027
and all the people in the store.
1710
01:31:05,435 --> 01:31:07,030
[Harvey Schlossberg]
People do change.
1711
01:31:08,500 --> 01:31:11,001
Human life, sacred.
1712
01:31:12,041 --> 01:31:13,201
It really is.
1713
01:31:30,189 --> 01:31:33,221
[♪]
1714
01:32:28,280 --> 01:32:31,312
[♪]
1715
01:33:04,217 --> 01:33:07,249
[♪]
1716
01:33:14,725 --> 01:33:17,666
To have listeners again
1717
01:33:18,068 --> 01:33:19,262
that feels good.
1718
01:33:19,397 --> 01:33:22,429
[♪]
1719
01:33:33,917 --> 01:33:36,949
[♪]