1 00:00:08,266 --> 00:00:12,000 MAN: Mr. Kuklinski, we're going to conduct a back search here. 2 00:00:12,330 --> 00:00:14,830 Put your arms out. 3 00:00:20,183 --> 00:00:23,133 NARRATOR: On May 25, 1988, 4 00:00:23,166 --> 00:00:26,100 Richard Kuklinski was convicted of multiple murder 5 00:00:26,133 --> 00:00:29,133 and sentenced to life imprisonment. 6 00:00:29,166 --> 00:00:32,216 This ended 30 years of cold-blooded killing 7 00:00:32,250 --> 00:00:36,350 by a master criminal police called "The Iceman." 8 00:00:38,100 --> 00:00:41,250 MAN: Richard Kuklinski is one of the most dangerous criminals 9 00:00:41,283 --> 00:00:44,150 we have ever come across in this state. 10 00:00:44,183 --> 00:00:46,433 He murdered by guns, 11 00:00:46,466 --> 00:00:49,500 he murdered by strangulation, 12 00:00:49,830 --> 00:00:52,300 he murdered by putting poison on victims' food. 13 00:00:52,333 --> 00:00:55,333 He did all of this at the same time 14 00:00:55,366 --> 00:00:58,433 while exhibiting a normal, placid family existence. 15 00:00:58,466 --> 00:01:01,830 His wife, his children 16 00:01:01,116 --> 00:01:04,366 were uninvolved in his criminal activities, 17 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:08,450 yet we are faced with evidence, 18 00:01:08,483 --> 00:01:12,483 convicting evidence of numerous grisly murders. 19 00:01:20,100 --> 00:01:22,416 MAN: How many people have you killed? 20 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,660 All right, approximate guess... 21 00:01:35,330 --> 00:01:37,233 Approximate, well, oh, 22 00:01:37,266 --> 00:01:39,316 more than a hundred. 23 00:01:47,330 --> 00:01:49,250 How do you feel about killing? 24 00:01:49,283 --> 00:01:51,100 I don't. 25 00:01:53,300 --> 00:01:56,000 It doesn't bother me. 26 00:01:56,330 --> 00:01:58,333 Doesn't bother me at all. 27 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,333 I don't have a feeling one way or the other. 28 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,830 I think, if I had a choice, I wouldn't. 29 00:02:43,830 --> 00:02:45,300 INTERVIEWER: Richard, when you were on the streets, 30 00:02:45,333 --> 00:02:48,333 what kinds of weapons did you use? 31 00:02:48,366 --> 00:02:51,133 When I was out on the street, 32 00:02:51,166 --> 00:02:54,350 to do something, I carried 3 guns 33 00:02:54,383 --> 00:02:56,400 and a knife. 34 00:02:56,433 --> 00:03:00,000 I had a derringer in each pocket. 35 00:03:03,166 --> 00:03:05,350 And a gun on my ankle, 36 00:03:05,383 --> 00:03:09,116 a bigger gun, just in case... 37 00:03:09,150 --> 00:03:11,350 and a knife. 38 00:03:11,383 --> 00:03:15,133 It all depends how it came about. 39 00:03:15,166 --> 00:03:19,333 You indicated yesterday that you used a shotgun, 40 00:03:19,366 --> 00:03:23,383 took it out at a stop light or something like that or... 41 00:03:23,416 --> 00:03:25,366 At a red light. 42 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,466 We were following this fella. 43 00:03:31,183 --> 00:03:34,150 I pulled up at a... 44 00:03:34,183 --> 00:03:37,200 at a red light. 45 00:03:37,233 --> 00:03:39,333 Came alongside of him. 46 00:03:39,366 --> 00:03:41,316 [Clears throat] 47 00:03:41,350 --> 00:03:43,316 And shot the shotgun, took his head off. 48 00:03:43,350 --> 00:03:46,160 He never saw the green light. 49 00:03:46,500 --> 00:03:49,116 It was a sawed-off shotgun. 50 00:03:50,300 --> 00:03:53,160 It was very, uh-- as a matter of fact, 51 00:03:53,500 --> 00:03:55,316 when it happened, it surprised me. 52 00:03:55,350 --> 00:03:58,316 I--I expected the, uh... 53 00:03:58,350 --> 00:04:01,160 the man to die, 54 00:04:01,500 --> 00:04:05,316 but it really surprised me when it took his head off. 55 00:04:05,350 --> 00:04:09,233 It was something I didn't expect. 56 00:04:10,383 --> 00:04:14,216 Richard Kuklinski is not a serial killer. 57 00:04:15,483 --> 00:04:18,366 He's not a drug-crazed 58 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,133 wild man running around with a machine gun. 59 00:04:22,166 --> 00:04:25,116 He's not a person 60 00:04:25,150 --> 00:04:29,150 that is driven by perverse sexual desires. 61 00:04:29,183 --> 00:04:32,400 He doesn't drink, he doesn't gamble, 62 00:04:32,433 --> 00:04:35,383 all of these things 63 00:04:35,416 --> 00:04:39,133 which many persons that are involved in killing 64 00:04:39,166 --> 00:04:42,283 and murders often are motivated by. 65 00:04:42,316 --> 00:04:45,150 Richard Kuklinski, instead, is nothing more than 66 00:04:45,183 --> 00:04:48,133 a predator on human beings. 67 00:04:48,166 --> 00:04:51,133 His motivation is greed, 68 00:04:51,166 --> 00:04:55,400 and his method of murder is very varied and very extreme. 69 00:04:57,100 --> 00:04:59,660 INTERVIEWER: Richard, I understand that you're 70 00:04:59,100 --> 00:05:01,316 an expert in the use of cyanide. 71 00:05:01,350 --> 00:05:03,366 How many times did you kill with it? 72 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,366 KUKLINSKI: Quite a few. 73 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,116 What's the different ways you use cyanide? 74 00:05:08,150 --> 00:05:12,383 [Sighs] You could, uh... 75 00:05:12,416 --> 00:05:15,366 put it in liquid form. 76 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,450 You could, uh... 77 00:05:17,483 --> 00:05:19,450 there could-- person could take it-- 78 00:05:19,483 --> 00:05:22,433 for instance, a person could be in a bar. 79 00:05:22,466 --> 00:05:27,160 You bump into them, possibly by mistake, 80 00:05:27,500 --> 00:05:29,300 or say you were intoxicated, 81 00:05:29,333 --> 00:05:32,830 spill a drink on them, 82 00:05:32,116 --> 00:05:34,283 and leave. 83 00:05:34,316 --> 00:05:37,133 Everybody just looks around, thinks you're a drunk 84 00:05:37,166 --> 00:05:39,333 or that you just had an accident or something. 85 00:05:39,366 --> 00:05:42,300 And, meanwhile, 86 00:05:42,333 --> 00:05:45,500 it's soaking through their clothes 87 00:05:45,830 --> 00:05:47,250 into their pores 88 00:05:47,283 --> 00:05:50,660 and into their system. 89 00:05:50,100 --> 00:05:53,500 And eventually... 90 00:05:53,830 --> 00:05:55,383 they'll die. 91 00:05:57,830 --> 00:06:00,500 I'd be in a restaurant 92 00:06:00,830 --> 00:06:03,216 where we were eating, 93 00:06:03,250 --> 00:06:05,250 and the guy went to the bathroom. 94 00:06:05,283 --> 00:06:08,100 And while he was in the bathroom, 95 00:06:08,133 --> 00:06:12,216 we put a little boost in his, uh, in his food. 96 00:06:13,416 --> 00:06:16,116 And, uh... 97 00:06:16,150 --> 00:06:20,383 he was rushed to the hospital after that 98 00:06:20,416 --> 00:06:23,366 and he died, 99 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,200 and they buried him. 100 00:06:28,133 --> 00:06:30,350 I'm not exactly sure what they put on-- 101 00:06:30,383 --> 00:06:34,350 what they attributed his death to, 102 00:06:34,383 --> 00:06:37,100 but, you know... 103 00:06:37,133 --> 00:06:39,316 it wasn't homicide. 104 00:06:39,350 --> 00:06:42,283 MAN: Somewhere, and I don't know where, 105 00:06:42,316 --> 00:06:44,316 he picked up on cyanide poisoning 106 00:06:44,350 --> 00:06:46,316 as being a good way, 107 00:06:46,350 --> 00:06:49,316 a good, quick way to kill somebody. 108 00:06:49,350 --> 00:06:52,316 It's such a good way to kill somebody 109 00:06:52,350 --> 00:06:55,166 that that's the gas that's used in gas chambers. 110 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,166 I mean, cyanide in a gas form, 111 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,400 which is similar to cyanide 112 00:07:00,433 --> 00:07:04,400 in a "being eaten" form, kills very quickly. 113 00:07:04,433 --> 00:07:08,400 It kills faster than arsenic, faster than strychnine, 114 00:07:08,433 --> 00:07:14,400 and it's hard to detect... 115 00:07:14,433 --> 00:07:18,466 if the person--if it isn't specifically looked for. 116 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:20,383 He murdered 117 00:07:20,416 --> 00:07:23,433 sometimes months apart, years apart. 118 00:07:23,466 --> 00:07:26,416 He used different methods. 119 00:07:26,450 --> 00:07:31,416 He would go so far as to plan in his crimes 120 00:07:31,450 --> 00:07:35,150 the actual deceit of law enforcement. 121 00:07:35,183 --> 00:07:39,400 By that, I mean he would, on occasion, murder someone, 122 00:07:39,433 --> 00:07:43,150 cut their body, wrap them in layer after layer 123 00:07:43,183 --> 00:07:46,000 of plastic bags and material, and then deposit the body 124 00:07:46,330 --> 00:07:48,250 many, many miles from the murder scene. 125 00:07:48,283 --> 00:07:51,330 KUKLINSKI: What is it if you dispose of something? 126 00:07:51,660 --> 00:07:53,660 You throw it away. 127 00:07:53,100 --> 00:07:55,300 You throw it anywhere. 128 00:07:55,333 --> 00:07:57,266 It all depends, 129 00:07:57,300 --> 00:07:59,366 if you don't want it found or if you want it found. 130 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,116 If you want it found, it doesn't matter. You just leave it there. 131 00:08:03,150 --> 00:08:06,116 If you don't want it found... [Sighs] 132 00:08:06,150 --> 00:08:09,500 you could take it somewhere. 133 00:08:09,830 --> 00:08:12,000 You could bury it. 134 00:08:12,330 --> 00:08:15,000 You could, uh, 135 00:08:15,330 --> 00:08:18,100 put it in a big drum. 136 00:08:19,316 --> 00:08:24,133 You could put it in a trunk of a car and have it crushed. 137 00:08:28,116 --> 00:08:31,350 You leave it in town, you could put it on a park bench. 138 00:08:31,383 --> 00:08:34,433 I mean, you know, you could put it anywhere you want. 139 00:08:34,466 --> 00:08:39,250 They found a few people sitting on park benches, I'm sure. 140 00:08:40,416 --> 00:08:43,250 As a matter of fact, I know they have. 141 00:08:44,450 --> 00:08:47,400 INTERVIEWER: Are there any murders that you committed 142 00:08:47,433 --> 00:08:52,250 that haunt you, that you just sort of--you feel any... 143 00:08:53,450 --> 00:08:56,283 Nothing haunts me. 144 00:08:57,483 --> 00:09:00,283 No murders haunt me. 145 00:09:02,466 --> 00:09:05,200 Nothing. 146 00:09:05,233 --> 00:09:07,433 I don't think about it. 147 00:09:07,466 --> 00:09:10,183 That's why it's hard for me to tell you. 148 00:09:10,216 --> 00:09:12,416 In order for me to be able to tell you 149 00:09:12,450 --> 00:09:15,433 when something happened, I'd have to think about when. 150 00:09:15,466 --> 00:09:19,160 If I think about it... 151 00:09:21,450 --> 00:09:24,416 it would wind up hurting me, 152 00:09:24,450 --> 00:09:28,283 so I don't-- I don't think about it. 153 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,200 If I had a choice, 154 00:09:34,233 --> 00:09:36,466 and, of course, you already said to me 155 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,216 we all have a choice-- heh heh! 156 00:09:40,250 --> 00:09:42,200 Maybe we do. 157 00:09:42,233 --> 00:09:44,450 At the time, I didn't seem to have one. 158 00:09:44,483 --> 00:09:47,433 But if I could have... 159 00:09:47,466 --> 00:09:50,183 I would like to be different than what I am. 160 00:09:50,216 --> 00:09:52,200 I would have liked to have been different 161 00:09:52,233 --> 00:09:54,183 than what I was, yes. 162 00:09:54,216 --> 00:09:57,183 It would be better, it would have been better for me. 163 00:09:57,216 --> 00:10:01,300 I would have liked to had a better outlook on life. 164 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,660 But I can't change yesterday. 165 00:10:12,250 --> 00:10:17,316 NARRATOR: Richard Kuklinski was born April 11, 1935 166 00:10:17,350 --> 00:10:21,400 in a low-income public housing project in Jersey City. 167 00:10:21,433 --> 00:10:25,183 His father was a brakeman for the railroad, 168 00:10:25,216 --> 00:10:28,183 and his mother worked in a meat-packing plant. 169 00:10:28,216 --> 00:10:30,283 KUKLINSKI: I didn't like my father 170 00:10:30,316 --> 00:10:35,660 'cause he would beat me just because he felt like it. 171 00:10:35,100 --> 00:10:37,266 To get my attention, I guess. 172 00:10:37,300 --> 00:10:39,366 He would think nothing of coming in 173 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:41,350 and smacking you, 174 00:10:41,383 --> 00:10:44,266 you know, basically. 175 00:10:44,300 --> 00:10:46,450 He'd just come in and give you a whoopin' 176 00:10:46,483 --> 00:10:49,830 for no reason whatsoever. 177 00:10:49,116 --> 00:10:51,333 And my mother was cancer. 178 00:10:51,366 --> 00:10:54,233 She would destroy everybody. 179 00:10:54,266 --> 00:10:57,150 She thought I took too long to do something, 180 00:10:57,183 --> 00:10:59,333 she didn't hesitate to give me a swat here 181 00:10:59,366 --> 00:11:01,383 and there, and she didn't just use her hand. 182 00:11:01,416 --> 00:11:04,150 She... 183 00:11:04,183 --> 00:11:07,116 She would hit me with a broomstick 184 00:11:07,150 --> 00:11:10,150 or something like that. It wouldn't... 185 00:11:10,183 --> 00:11:12,150 It hurt. 186 00:11:12,183 --> 00:11:14,166 As a matter of fact, 187 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,330 she broke the broom on me more than once. 188 00:11:17,660 --> 00:11:19,316 NARRATOR: Richard's mother believed 189 00:11:19,350 --> 00:11:22,350 that harsh discipline at home should go hand in hand 190 00:11:22,383 --> 00:11:25,400 with a rigid religious education. 191 00:11:25,433 --> 00:11:29,400 I was raised a...a Catholic. 192 00:11:29,433 --> 00:11:31,400 INTERVIEWER: Mm-hmm. 193 00:11:31,433 --> 00:11:34,133 Uh, we were very... 194 00:11:34,166 --> 00:11:37,300 she was strict as far as the religion goes. 195 00:11:37,333 --> 00:11:39,466 I went to a-- Your mother? 196 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,160 My mother, yeah. My mother-- 197 00:11:42,500 --> 00:11:44,160 We went to a... 198 00:11:44,500 --> 00:11:46,250 Catholic grammar school 199 00:11:46,283 --> 00:11:51,266 and we were raised with the Catholic belief. 200 00:11:51,300 --> 00:11:55,266 I was even an altar boy. 201 00:11:55,300 --> 00:11:58,166 But, uh... 202 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,400 during the course of my life, 203 00:12:00,433 --> 00:12:04,150 I don't really believe it. 204 00:12:04,183 --> 00:12:06,400 It's just the way it happened. 205 00:12:06,433 --> 00:12:08,483 Didn't mean it to happen that way, 206 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,660 but it just happened that way. 207 00:12:11,100 --> 00:12:14,116 NARRATOR: When his father abandoned the family, 208 00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:17,466 Richard, a skinny, timid young teenager, 209 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,100 was left to fend for himself. 210 00:12:20,133 --> 00:12:22,450 He was an easy target for street gangs, 211 00:12:22,483 --> 00:12:25,200 but by the time he was 16, 212 00:12:25,233 --> 00:12:27,333 things began to change. 213 00:12:27,366 --> 00:12:30,000 KUKLINSKI: When I was a young man, I found out 214 00:12:30,330 --> 00:12:32,466 that if you hurt somebody, 215 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,483 they'll leave you alone. 216 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,316 Good guys do finish last. 217 00:12:41,250 --> 00:12:44,216 When I tried to leave everybody alone, 218 00:12:44,250 --> 00:12:46,333 just do my own thing, everybody just wanted 219 00:12:46,366 --> 00:12:48,466 to hurt me, 220 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,500 until one day I just decided, 221 00:12:51,830 --> 00:12:53,200 "Well, I've had enough of this picking." 222 00:12:53,233 --> 00:12:57,450 And I went upstairs and I took a... 223 00:12:57,483 --> 00:13:01,216 a bar, which the clothes used to hang on 224 00:13:01,250 --> 00:13:04,216 in the closet. 225 00:13:04,250 --> 00:13:07,433 And I went back downstairs, 226 00:13:07,466 --> 00:13:11,150 and there were, like, 6 young men, 227 00:13:11,183 --> 00:13:16,330 still figuring they were gonna mess with my head, 228 00:13:16,660 --> 00:13:18,283 and, uh... 229 00:13:18,316 --> 00:13:21,383 we went to war. 230 00:13:23,116 --> 00:13:25,300 To their surprise, 231 00:13:25,333 --> 00:13:28,300 I was no longer taking the beating. 232 00:13:28,333 --> 00:13:31,500 I was giving it. 233 00:13:31,830 --> 00:13:34,500 And that's when I learned that it was better 234 00:13:34,830 --> 00:13:37,330 to give than to receive. 235 00:13:37,660 --> 00:13:41,250 I have been known to hurt people for no reason. 236 00:13:41,283 --> 00:13:45,000 If you check out my background as I came up, 237 00:13:45,330 --> 00:13:47,250 I could be anywhere, and if somebody humiliated me, 238 00:13:47,283 --> 00:13:51,266 I would think nothing of hitting them with a cue stick 239 00:13:51,300 --> 00:13:54,100 in an instant. 240 00:13:57,133 --> 00:14:00,300 And the only thing they might have done was... 241 00:14:00,333 --> 00:14:04,250 made me feel bad, or... 242 00:14:04,283 --> 00:14:08,500 challenged my authority at the time. 243 00:14:08,830 --> 00:14:11,316 NARRATOR: Kuklinski's reputation as a tough guy 244 00:14:11,350 --> 00:14:14,500 with a hair-trigger temper grew. 245 00:14:14,830 --> 00:14:16,116 By the time he was 18, 246 00:14:16,150 --> 00:14:19,116 the abused had become the abuser. 247 00:14:19,150 --> 00:14:22,366 It wasn't long before he committed his first murder. 248 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,366 KUKLINSKI: I got into a fight in a bar. 249 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:29,183 We got into an argument, a fight, 250 00:14:29,216 --> 00:14:32,166 and I hit him with a... 251 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,416 with a cue stick... 252 00:14:35,450 --> 00:14:38,400 uh... 253 00:14:38,433 --> 00:14:42,316 a few too many times, and he died. 254 00:14:42,350 --> 00:14:44,416 INTERVIEWER: How'd you feel after, 255 00:14:44,450 --> 00:14:46,400 when you found out that he'd died? 256 00:14:46,433 --> 00:14:49,000 I had felt very bad. 257 00:14:49,330 --> 00:14:51,000 Very, very bad. 258 00:14:51,330 --> 00:14:53,266 I was upset. 259 00:14:53,300 --> 00:14:56,000 I didn't... 260 00:14:56,330 --> 00:14:59,830 mean to do it, actually. 261 00:15:00,233 --> 00:15:05,830 But surprisingly, I felt sadness and... 262 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,483 after a while, I felt something else. 263 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,000 I didn't feel sad. I was sad, along with... 264 00:15:14,330 --> 00:15:16,483 some sort of a... 265 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,216 rush, that I had control, and... 266 00:15:20,250 --> 00:15:22,466 if you mess with me, I guess it's-- 267 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,300 if you mess with me, I'll...I'll hurt you. 268 00:15:27,333 --> 00:15:30,283 NARRATOR: By the time he'd reached his 20s, 269 00:15:30,316 --> 00:15:33,483 Kuklinski had become a petty crook and pool hustler, 270 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,160 then his life changed. 271 00:15:36,500 --> 00:15:38,830 In 1960, he met 272 00:15:38,116 --> 00:15:41,433 a pretty 19-year-old girl named Barbara Pedrin. 273 00:15:41,466 --> 00:15:44,450 He was absolutely... 274 00:15:44,483 --> 00:15:48,250 flowers at the door every day and... 275 00:15:48,283 --> 00:15:52,000 considerate and romantic and all of the things 276 00:15:52,330 --> 00:15:55,350 that anybody could hope for, dream for. 277 00:15:55,383 --> 00:15:58,660 He bought me beautiful things. 278 00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:00,383 We went fun places. 279 00:16:00,416 --> 00:16:03,366 He was happiest when we were together. 280 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,333 He was happiest when just he and I were together. 281 00:16:06,366 --> 00:16:10,330 NARRATOR: He and Barbara had 3 children, 282 00:16:10,660 --> 00:16:13,330 but with just an eighth-grade education, he could only get 283 00:16:13,660 --> 00:16:15,366 low-paying jobs that didn't pay enough to support 284 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,466 his growing family. 285 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,216 I didn't have the capability 286 00:16:20,250 --> 00:16:23,216 of getting a better-paying job. 287 00:16:23,250 --> 00:16:25,233 What, was I going to push a yarn truck 288 00:16:25,266 --> 00:16:27,366 the rest of my life, 289 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:31,116 make a menial amount of money? 290 00:16:31,150 --> 00:16:34,383 I couldn't have afforded... 291 00:16:34,416 --> 00:16:37,283 one child, let alone 3. 292 00:16:37,316 --> 00:16:40,660 NARRATOR: He went to work at a film lab, 293 00:16:40,100 --> 00:16:43,330 where he began to pirate pornographic films 294 00:16:43,660 --> 00:16:45,183 and sell them to outside sources 295 00:16:45,216 --> 00:16:48,200 connected to the Gambino crime family. 296 00:16:48,233 --> 00:16:51,450 This connection led to other criminal activities, 297 00:16:51,483 --> 00:16:54,216 and it wasn't long before he went from being 298 00:16:54,250 --> 00:16:59,160 a small-time hood to a big-time killer. 299 00:17:00,166 --> 00:17:03,466 He worked as a hit man and associated with a gang 300 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,500 that worked out of the notorious Gemini Lounge in Brooklyn. 301 00:17:08,830 --> 00:17:12,500 Above the Lounge was a Mafia killing factory, 302 00:17:12,830 --> 00:17:15,316 where victims were killed and dismembered. 303 00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:19,830 Hacked bodies were packaged in plastic bags 304 00:17:19,116 --> 00:17:21,183 and carted away. 305 00:17:21,216 --> 00:17:24,466 Kuklinski was the perfect enforcer. 306 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,166 He was brutal and he knew how to intimidate. 307 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,366 If people owed money, 308 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:35,166 they either paid up or paid with their lives. 309 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,416 KUKLINSKI: Most people paid their bills. 310 00:17:37,450 --> 00:17:40,150 Some didn't. 311 00:17:40,183 --> 00:17:42,300 I remember one guy. 312 00:17:42,333 --> 00:17:45,466 He was, um... owed a lot of money. 313 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,100 Well, I guess a considerable amount of money. 314 00:17:51,300 --> 00:17:54,100 Um... 315 00:17:56,283 --> 00:18:01,000 He hid be--he thought he could hide behind a door. 316 00:18:01,330 --> 00:18:04,100 It was a nice door, expensive door. 317 00:18:05,300 --> 00:18:07,233 Anyway, uh, 318 00:18:07,266 --> 00:18:09,483 most people don't realize that, uh, 319 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,333 when you come to answer a door... 320 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,150 uh, if there's light in the background, 321 00:18:19,183 --> 00:18:21,166 the person on the outside can look 322 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,330 through the peephole 323 00:18:23,660 --> 00:18:26,366 and see the guy coming to the door. 324 00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:32,330 So he came to the door, asked who it was, 325 00:18:32,660 --> 00:18:35,160 and, uh... 326 00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:38,330 he looked through the peephole. 327 00:18:38,660 --> 00:18:40,400 [Clicks tongue] 328 00:18:40,433 --> 00:18:44,166 And he never saw what hit him. 329 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,416 NARRATOR: For Richard Kuklinski, 330 00:18:46,450 --> 00:18:49,200 murder had become a way of life, 331 00:18:49,233 --> 00:18:52,433 and the macabre became the commonplace. 332 00:18:52,466 --> 00:18:56,400 INTERVIEWER: Don't you ever use a chainsaw? I mean... 333 00:18:56,433 --> 00:18:59,150 To cut someone up? 334 00:18:59,183 --> 00:19:01,150 Yes. 335 00:19:01,183 --> 00:19:03,483 I've done that. 336 00:19:05,433 --> 00:19:07,383 To dismember them, yes. 337 00:19:07,416 --> 00:19:09,450 Not to kill them, though. 338 00:19:09,483 --> 00:19:13,183 And what was it like to cut somebody up with a-- 339 00:19:13,216 --> 00:19:15,300 with a--you know, well, the guy's dead. 340 00:19:15,333 --> 00:19:19,366 How did it feel to cut some guy up with a chainsaw? 341 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,133 I didn't have any feeling 342 00:19:22,166 --> 00:19:24,400 one way or the other. 343 00:19:24,433 --> 00:19:27,116 That just happened. 344 00:19:27,150 --> 00:19:29,416 That's the way it had to be. 345 00:19:29,450 --> 00:19:31,166 Messy? 346 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,250 Yes. 347 00:19:35,433 --> 00:19:37,400 Yes, it was. 348 00:19:37,433 --> 00:19:40,150 Did it make you sick? 349 00:19:40,183 --> 00:19:41,383 No. 350 00:19:41,416 --> 00:19:43,400 I've had requests where the guy wanted 351 00:19:43,433 --> 00:19:45,400 the guy's tongue cut out. 352 00:19:47,660 --> 00:19:51,330 And he also wanted his tongue 353 00:19:51,660 --> 00:19:54,216 put in his, uh, rear end. 354 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,383 So I believe there was a definite point 355 00:19:58,416 --> 00:20:01,233 he wanted to get across. 356 00:20:04,250 --> 00:20:06,200 I have an experience 357 00:20:06,233 --> 00:20:09,200 that I don't know if I should tell you, 358 00:20:09,233 --> 00:20:11,366 that it might--it probably would offend 359 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,383 a lot of people. 360 00:20:13,416 --> 00:20:16,466 Uh... 361 00:20:18,166 --> 00:20:19,466 I don't know. 362 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,330 I don't think--I should not go into that. 363 00:20:22,660 --> 00:20:23,466 Go ahead. 364 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:25,183 No, it's not a good one. 365 00:20:25,216 --> 00:20:28,283 Tell it. Go ahead. Tell it. 366 00:20:32,483 --> 00:20:35,160 Tsk. 367 00:20:35,500 --> 00:20:38,483 There a man, he was begging 368 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,466 and pleading and, uh... 369 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:47,316 and...and praying, I guess. 370 00:20:49,330 --> 00:20:51,233 [Sighs] 371 00:20:51,266 --> 00:20:54,300 And, um... 372 00:20:59,233 --> 00:21:03,300 He was "Please, God"in' all over the place. 373 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,333 So I told him he could have a half-hour... 374 00:21:13,330 --> 00:21:15,483 to pray to God. 375 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,233 And if God could come down 376 00:21:18,266 --> 00:21:22,000 and change the circumstances... 377 00:21:22,330 --> 00:21:25,830 he'd have that time. 378 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,266 But God never showed up, 379 00:21:33,300 --> 00:21:37,316 and he never changed the circumstances... 380 00:21:40,266 --> 00:21:43,100 and that was that. 381 00:21:46,300 --> 00:21:49,350 It wasn't too nice. 382 00:21:54,366 --> 00:21:57,100 That's one thing I shouldn't have done, 383 00:21:57,133 --> 00:21:59,166 that one. 384 00:22:01,316 --> 00:22:04,133 I shouldn't have done it that way. 385 00:22:06,366 --> 00:22:08,400 NARRATOR: By the 1970s, 386 00:22:08,433 --> 00:22:12,433 between his illegal activities and contract killings, 387 00:22:12,466 --> 00:22:15,350 he was becoming a wealthy man. 388 00:22:15,383 --> 00:22:18,150 He now lived in an expensive home 389 00:22:18,183 --> 00:22:22,150 in a middle-class neighborhood with his wife and 3 children. 390 00:22:22,183 --> 00:22:25,333 INTERVIEWER: Richard, what did you charge for a hit? 391 00:22:25,366 --> 00:22:28,316 If I hit somebody, 392 00:22:28,350 --> 00:22:32,660 I wouldn't hit it for peanuts. 393 00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:36,166 I'd like to have some money. 394 00:22:39,333 --> 00:22:42,300 I'd say if I were to do somebody, 395 00:22:42,333 --> 00:22:45,400 I'd want at least 5 figures. 396 00:22:47,830 --> 00:22:50,830 And at least up in the better half, 397 00:22:50,116 --> 00:22:53,133 not the lower half, of the 5 figures. 398 00:22:53,166 --> 00:22:56,183 NARRATOR: Kuklinski kept his criminal life secret 399 00:22:56,216 --> 00:22:58,316 from his family and neighbors. 400 00:22:58,350 --> 00:23:00,366 He told them he was a businessman. 401 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,330 No one knew his business was murder. 402 00:23:03,660 --> 00:23:05,500 BARBARA KUKLINSKI: We were perfect. 403 00:23:05,830 --> 00:23:07,000 My children were never in trouble. 404 00:23:07,330 --> 00:23:10,466 We were perfect. We were the all-American family. 405 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,400 I mean, we had what seemed to be the perfect life. 406 00:23:15,433 --> 00:23:18,400 There were wonderful times, 407 00:23:18,433 --> 00:23:22,000 and time with his family was the only thing that he was 408 00:23:22,330 --> 00:23:24,116 really concerned--I mean, if he never had to leave the house, 409 00:23:24,150 --> 00:23:25,366 he would have loved it. 410 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,100 He hated to have to travel. 411 00:23:27,133 --> 00:23:29,116 He hated to go away. 412 00:23:29,150 --> 00:23:31,350 He came back as soon as he can. 413 00:23:31,383 --> 00:23:35,266 He wanted to be home all the time. 414 00:23:35,300 --> 00:23:38,266 He wanted to be with us all the time. 415 00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:41,283 KUKLINSKI: I enjoyed that way of life. 416 00:23:41,316 --> 00:23:45,100 I felt I had achieved something. 417 00:23:45,133 --> 00:23:48,830 I... 418 00:23:48,116 --> 00:23:52,830 very seldom left the house unless I had to 419 00:23:52,116 --> 00:23:56,116 because I felt... secure in the house. 420 00:23:56,150 --> 00:23:58,416 I felt very secure. 421 00:23:58,450 --> 00:24:01,400 I tried to provide 422 00:24:01,433 --> 00:24:05,300 the best for them 423 00:24:05,333 --> 00:24:08,250 as I knew how. 424 00:24:08,283 --> 00:24:11,330 Might not have been the right way to go, 425 00:24:11,660 --> 00:24:13,333 but it was, for me, the only way. 426 00:24:13,366 --> 00:24:17,660 I tried to never let anything 427 00:24:17,100 --> 00:24:20,830 touch the house. 428 00:24:20,116 --> 00:24:22,100 I brought nobody there. 429 00:24:22,133 --> 00:24:26,100 My family was not exposed to anybody. 430 00:24:26,133 --> 00:24:30,150 I wanted to show them the good side of life, 431 00:24:30,183 --> 00:24:32,383 not the bad side. 432 00:24:32,416 --> 00:24:35,266 BARBARA KUKLINSKI: Richard had a very, very sad childhood. 433 00:24:35,300 --> 00:24:37,433 You got the impression-- or I knew because he would, like, 434 00:24:37,466 --> 00:24:39,266 say something and then drop it and change the subject-- 435 00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:42,400 that he was abused and that there was no love. 436 00:24:42,433 --> 00:24:45,483 He grew up absolutely without any love, without a doubt. 437 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,250 I mean, the first Christmas with my family, 438 00:24:49,283 --> 00:24:52,160 he couldn't-- he was in awe. 439 00:24:52,500 --> 00:24:53,483 He couldn't believe it. 440 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,160 There was a tree 441 00:24:56,500 --> 00:24:57,483 and everyone was cooking special things 442 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,200 and there was lots of--we were laughing and it was fun and 443 00:25:00,233 --> 00:25:04,350 he kept saying, "I can't believe that this is what happens." 444 00:25:04,383 --> 00:25:07,350 KUKLINSKI: It was a Jekyll and Hyde existence. 445 00:25:07,383 --> 00:25:10,116 The way it was, the way I wanted it to be, 446 00:25:10,150 --> 00:25:13,100 were absolutely two different... 447 00:25:13,133 --> 00:25:15,350 two different lives. 448 00:25:15,383 --> 00:25:19,300 I wanted...one life. 449 00:25:19,333 --> 00:25:23,183 I had to have another life. 450 00:25:23,216 --> 00:25:27,133 NARRATOR: This other life would interrupt one Christmas Eve. 451 00:25:27,166 --> 00:25:31,660 While his family was celebrating the holidays, 452 00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:35,830 Kuklinski left his home to collect on a bad debt. 453 00:25:35,116 --> 00:25:39,660 Business was business, even on Christmas Eve. 454 00:25:39,100 --> 00:25:41,200 KUKLINSKI: The man owed me money. 455 00:25:41,233 --> 00:25:43,483 He was giving me a runaround. 456 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,830 I told him I wasn't happy that he wasn't gonna pay me. 457 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,250 And he had the attitude that, uh... 458 00:25:52,283 --> 00:25:54,660 [Sighs] 459 00:25:55,266 --> 00:25:58,660 Nobody could hurt him. 460 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,200 I think he was wrong. 461 00:26:02,233 --> 00:26:03,416 [Distant siren] 462 00:26:03,450 --> 00:26:06,333 Anyway, he never saw Christmas. 463 00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:10,316 INTERVIEWER: What did you use, a-- 464 00:26:10,350 --> 00:26:13,500 A gun. 465 00:26:13,830 --> 00:26:17,150 Extremely loud inside of a car. Heh heh! 466 00:26:18,333 --> 00:26:22,500 Matter of fact, my ears were ringing for a long time. 467 00:26:22,830 --> 00:26:24,283 What'd you do afterwards? 468 00:26:24,316 --> 00:26:26,483 I walked away, 469 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,100 got in my car, 470 00:26:29,133 --> 00:26:31,333 and went home. 471 00:26:31,366 --> 00:26:34,350 What'd you do when you got home? 472 00:26:36,330 --> 00:26:40,100 I put toys together for the kids for Christmas. 473 00:26:45,316 --> 00:26:48,330 I saw the broadcast while I was putting 474 00:26:48,660 --> 00:26:50,300 the toys together, came down. 475 00:26:50,333 --> 00:26:53,150 "Mob-related killing." 476 00:26:55,316 --> 00:26:58,283 That was the first time I knew I was mob-related. 477 00:26:58,316 --> 00:27:00,366 Heh heh! 478 00:27:02,660 --> 00:27:04,366 How'd you feel? 479 00:27:09,433 --> 00:27:13,316 I was annoyed I couldn't get the damn wagon together. 480 00:27:13,350 --> 00:27:16,366 I never questioned him, and you just knew. 481 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,250 Don't do it, don't ask. 482 00:27:19,283 --> 00:27:22,200 If he got up at 2:00 in the morning or during dinner, 483 00:27:22,233 --> 00:27:25,160 and put on his shoes and walked out the door, you said, "Bye." 484 00:27:25,500 --> 00:27:28,266 You didn't say, "Where are you going?" or "Why are you going?" 485 00:27:28,300 --> 00:27:32,400 And it was just...understood that that's the way it was. 486 00:27:32,433 --> 00:27:35,133 He was very private. 487 00:27:35,166 --> 00:27:38,330 You only knew what he wanted you to know. 488 00:27:38,660 --> 00:27:41,830 NARRATOR: By the 1980s, after 25 years 489 00:27:41,116 --> 00:27:43,450 of working as a hit man for the mob, 490 00:27:43,483 --> 00:27:47,300 Richard Kuklinski became the head of his own crime ring. 491 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,483 He developed new ways to profit from murder. 492 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,150 The case of Paul Hoffman was typical of the way he operated. 493 00:27:57,183 --> 00:28:01,233 On the afternoon of April 29, 1982, 494 00:28:01,266 --> 00:28:05,660 Hoffman arrived at a warehouse leased by Kuklinski. 495 00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:07,466 Like numerous victims of The Iceman, 496 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,183 he had been set up for a phony business deal. 497 00:28:11,216 --> 00:28:13,450 MAN: Paul Hoffman was a pharmacist, 498 00:28:13,483 --> 00:28:16,183 and he was looking for a quick buck. 499 00:28:16,216 --> 00:28:18,416 He was... 500 00:28:18,450 --> 00:28:22,183 out to purchase a drug called Tagamet, 501 00:28:22,216 --> 00:28:25,450 which was, at the time, a wonder drug for ulcers. 502 00:28:25,483 --> 00:28:30,216 And he felt that if he could purchase a large quantity 503 00:28:30,250 --> 00:28:32,450 of this Tagamet 504 00:28:32,483 --> 00:28:35,483 at a very low price, 505 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,216 that he could indeed make 506 00:28:38,250 --> 00:28:41,450 a huge profit on that, 507 00:28:41,483 --> 00:28:44,200 and that was the alleged deal 508 00:28:44,233 --> 00:28:46,450 that he had with Richard Kuklinski. 509 00:28:46,483 --> 00:28:50,216 NARRATOR: When Paul Hoffman showed up to buy the Tagamet, 510 00:28:50,250 --> 00:28:54,116 he was carrying $25,000 in cash. 511 00:28:54,150 --> 00:28:57,350 KUKLINSKI: He took the bag, opened it, 512 00:28:57,383 --> 00:29:01,500 showed me a whole mess of money, a whole mess of cash. 513 00:29:01,830 --> 00:29:03,500 He said, "Look, I got the money right here, 514 00:29:03,830 --> 00:29:06,150 here it is," and he came back. 515 00:29:07,333 --> 00:29:10,316 And he says, "What are we gonna do? 516 00:29:10,350 --> 00:29:12,500 "What are we gonna do? 517 00:29:12,830 --> 00:29:14,300 How am I gonna get this merchandise?" 518 00:29:14,333 --> 00:29:16,383 Tsk. 519 00:29:19,316 --> 00:29:23,330 I put the gun under his chin 520 00:29:23,660 --> 00:29:26,300 and I said, "There is no merchandise," 521 00:29:26,333 --> 00:29:29,150 and I shot him. 522 00:29:36,366 --> 00:29:38,416 He didn't die. 523 00:29:40,116 --> 00:29:43,830 The gun jammed. 524 00:29:43,116 --> 00:29:47,316 He was...gurgling. 525 00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:50,400 I had hit him. 526 00:29:52,366 --> 00:29:55,300 It was, uh... 527 00:29:55,333 --> 00:29:59,660 blood was pouring out of his mouth, 528 00:29:59,100 --> 00:30:02,416 and, uh... 529 00:30:08,450 --> 00:30:11,416 He was in a-- I would imagine, a lot-- 530 00:30:11,450 --> 00:30:14,250 he looked like he was in a lot of pain. 531 00:30:14,283 --> 00:30:16,333 Tsk. So there was a tire iron there. 532 00:30:16,366 --> 00:30:19,830 I took the tire iron and hit him with it, 533 00:30:19,116 --> 00:30:21,333 which... 534 00:30:21,366 --> 00:30:24,333 knocked him out... 535 00:30:24,366 --> 00:30:28,830 and, uh, he died. 536 00:30:28,116 --> 00:30:30,350 I then took him 537 00:30:30,383 --> 00:30:33,350 and put him in a 50-gallon drum, 538 00:30:33,383 --> 00:30:37,283 put it on the side of a motel. 539 00:30:38,466 --> 00:30:41,350 It was behind Harry's Corner. 540 00:30:41,383 --> 00:30:44,160 I listened to the people. 541 00:30:44,500 --> 00:30:46,366 I went in Harry's every morning. 542 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,133 The thing was there for a long time, 543 00:30:50,166 --> 00:30:52,383 out there every day. 544 00:30:52,416 --> 00:30:54,350 It was there. 545 00:30:54,383 --> 00:30:58,160 I went in Harry's every day. One day it was just missing. 546 00:30:58,500 --> 00:31:00,283 Continued to go in Harry's to see if anything 547 00:31:00,316 --> 00:31:03,330 was said about it. 548 00:31:03,660 --> 00:31:05,266 Nothing was said. 549 00:31:05,300 --> 00:31:08,300 I don't know what happened to the drum. 550 00:31:08,333 --> 00:31:11,316 NARRATOR: By the 1980s, Kuklinski was involved 551 00:31:11,350 --> 00:31:14,333 in narcotics, pornography, arms dealing, 552 00:31:14,366 --> 00:31:17,350 money-laundering, hijacking, and contract-killing 553 00:31:17,383 --> 00:31:20,100 on a worldwide basis. 554 00:31:20,133 --> 00:31:23,100 He was also pressing 50 555 00:31:23,133 --> 00:31:25,100 and getting tired. 556 00:31:25,133 --> 00:31:27,333 He started to make mistakes. 557 00:31:27,366 --> 00:31:30,830 He began to leave traces, 558 00:31:30,116 --> 00:31:32,350 and law enforcement officers who had suspected him 559 00:31:32,383 --> 00:31:36,830 over the years began gathering evidence. 560 00:31:36,116 --> 00:31:39,333 Kuklinski would protect himself by killing anyone 561 00:31:39,366 --> 00:31:41,450 who could testify against him. 562 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,133 On December 27, 1982, 563 00:31:45,166 --> 00:31:49,216 a body was discovered at the York Motel in New Jersey. 564 00:31:49,250 --> 00:31:51,216 The body was identified 565 00:31:51,250 --> 00:31:53,450 as Gary Smith, 37. 566 00:31:53,483 --> 00:31:58,660 Smith had been given cyanide and then strangled to death. 567 00:31:58,100 --> 00:32:00,216 This was the first of many mistakes 568 00:32:00,250 --> 00:32:02,316 Kuklinski was to commit. 569 00:32:02,350 --> 00:32:05,660 DR. BADEN: Gary Smith was found 570 00:32:05,100 --> 00:32:07,316 under a motel bed 571 00:32:07,350 --> 00:32:09,316 in New Jersey, 572 00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:12,183 as I recall, where some 20 people 573 00:32:12,216 --> 00:32:15,350 had used the room in 5 days, and nobody had realized 574 00:32:15,383 --> 00:32:18,416 there was a rotting body underneath it. 575 00:32:18,450 --> 00:32:21,233 The body was found in a decomposed state. 576 00:32:21,266 --> 00:32:23,466 It was very hot weather. 577 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,366 Smith would have not... 578 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,500 been identified as a murder victim 579 00:32:29,830 --> 00:32:31,450 if he had died only of the cyanide. 580 00:32:31,483 --> 00:32:34,283 If the cyanide had worked and he had died 581 00:32:34,316 --> 00:32:37,160 and he didn't need to be strangled, 582 00:32:37,500 --> 00:32:39,266 that ligature mark around the neck wouldn't have been seen 583 00:32:39,300 --> 00:32:42,160 and he would have...been 584 00:32:42,500 --> 00:32:46,000 possibly a drug addict overdose or--lots of other things 585 00:32:46,330 --> 00:32:49,483 of a non-homicidal nature would have to be considered. 586 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,250 NARRATOR: On September 25, 1983, 587 00:32:53,283 --> 00:32:56,450 the body of Louis Masgay was found. 588 00:32:56,483 --> 00:32:59,200 As he had done many times before 589 00:32:59,233 --> 00:33:01,283 to confuse the time of death, 590 00:33:01,316 --> 00:33:05,233 Kuklinski had frozen the body in an industrial freezer. 591 00:33:05,266 --> 00:33:09,300 This was the murder that earned him the name of "Iceman." 592 00:33:09,333 --> 00:33:14,416 This murder was also his second deadly mistake. 593 00:33:14,450 --> 00:33:16,400 He did too good a job on that body 594 00:33:16,433 --> 00:33:19,183 because he left that body in the freezer for two years, 595 00:33:19,216 --> 00:33:21,316 then took the body out and dumped it 596 00:33:21,350 --> 00:33:23,366 in Rockland County, 597 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,366 and the body was found 598 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,233 before it had fully thawed out, 599 00:33:29,266 --> 00:33:31,416 so the doctor doing the autopsy, the medical examiner 600 00:33:31,450 --> 00:33:34,100 in Rockland County, when he opened the body up, 601 00:33:34,133 --> 00:33:37,100 saw ice inside the body in the summer's day 602 00:33:37,133 --> 00:33:39,266 and said, "There's something wrong here. 603 00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:42,233 "This guy could not have died two days ago 604 00:33:42,266 --> 00:33:45,233 the way he looks like from the outside." 605 00:33:45,266 --> 00:33:48,233 NARRATOR: On May 14, 1983, 606 00:33:48,266 --> 00:33:52,366 a bicyclist was riding down a lonely road in a wooded area 607 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,350 and saw a buzzard feeding on a body. 608 00:33:55,383 --> 00:33:59,000 It was Daniel Deppner, 44, 609 00:33:59,330 --> 00:34:01,366 the third business associate of Richard Kuklinski 610 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,283 to be found dead. 611 00:34:03,316 --> 00:34:05,216 The body count grew. 612 00:34:05,250 --> 00:34:08,330 There would soon be 5 unsolved murders 613 00:34:08,660 --> 00:34:10,433 with one thing in common: the last person 614 00:34:10,466 --> 00:34:14,316 to see the victims alive had been Richard Kuklinski. 615 00:34:14,350 --> 00:34:17,316 After 30 years of getting away with murder, 616 00:34:17,350 --> 00:34:20,366 Richard Kuklinski's time was running out. 617 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,350 He had been under investigation for 3 years, 618 00:34:23,383 --> 00:34:27,316 and the police were beginning to put the pieces together. 619 00:34:27,350 --> 00:34:30,450 What I told my superiors 620 00:34:30,483 --> 00:34:34,183 in Trenton was that... 621 00:34:34,216 --> 00:34:37,433 "Hey, look, you know, we can check with the FBI 622 00:34:37,466 --> 00:34:42,160 "and we can see that there's a certain number of 623 00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:47,000 "given serial killers roaming around this country of ours, 624 00:34:47,330 --> 00:34:51,000 "but take a good, hard look at what we got here. 625 00:34:51,330 --> 00:34:55,300 We got Richard Kuklinski, and there's only one of him." 626 00:34:55,333 --> 00:34:58,330 NARRATOR: In 1986, 627 00:34:58,660 --> 00:35:01,250 a division of the New Jersey Criminal Justice Department 628 00:35:01,283 --> 00:35:04,183 set up a task force made up of federal, 629 00:35:04,216 --> 00:35:07,266 state, and local law enforcement agencies 630 00:35:07,300 --> 00:35:11,150 The task force analyzed existing investigative material 631 00:35:11,183 --> 00:35:13,266 and gathered new information. 632 00:35:13,300 --> 00:35:18,266 They had one mission: to arrest and convict Richard Kuklinski. 633 00:35:18,300 --> 00:35:20,433 CARROLL: When I first read the file, 634 00:35:20,466 --> 00:35:23,116 which, at the time, was nothing more than a compilation 635 00:35:23,150 --> 00:35:26,283 of several different unsolved homicides, 636 00:35:26,316 --> 00:35:28,283 the more you looked for connections, 637 00:35:28,316 --> 00:35:30,283 the less you found in this particular case 638 00:35:30,316 --> 00:35:32,400 because there was different types of murders, 639 00:35:32,433 --> 00:35:34,383 different devices used. 640 00:35:34,416 --> 00:35:37,660 The final method that was used was, 641 00:35:37,100 --> 00:35:40,830 in fact, the introduction of an undercover federal agent, 642 00:35:40,116 --> 00:35:42,350 Dominick Polifrone, who was able 643 00:35:42,383 --> 00:35:45,233 to win Mr. Kuklinski's confidence and was able 644 00:35:45,266 --> 00:35:47,400 to record conversations where he detailed 645 00:35:47,433 --> 00:35:49,466 his participation in these murders. 646 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,200 I portrayed myself as a hit man, 647 00:35:52,233 --> 00:35:56,183 told him I worked for the, uh, wise guys, downtown New York, 648 00:35:56,216 --> 00:35:59,450 and my brother was a goodfella downtown 649 00:35:59,483 --> 00:36:02,216 and I went by the name 650 00:36:02,250 --> 00:36:06,660 of Dominick Michael Provanzano. 651 00:36:06,100 --> 00:36:10,266 POLIFRONE: Are you willing to go out on a contract? 652 00:36:10,300 --> 00:36:14,160 KUKLINSKI: If the price is right, I'll talk to anybody. 653 00:36:14,500 --> 00:36:15,283 Yeah? Sure. 654 00:36:15,316 --> 00:36:17,266 And you mean to tell me your way is nice and clean 655 00:36:17,300 --> 00:36:19,350 and nothin' fuckin' shows up? 656 00:36:19,383 --> 00:36:22,100 Well, it may show, my friend, but it's qui-- 657 00:36:22,133 --> 00:36:25,133 it's not messy, it's not noisy. 658 00:36:25,166 --> 00:36:27,350 It's not, uh, you know. 659 00:36:27,383 --> 00:36:29,100 Yeah, but how the fuck do you put it together, 660 00:36:29,133 --> 00:36:30,333 like, you know what I'm saying? 661 00:36:30,366 --> 00:36:32,830 Oh, there's always a way. 662 00:36:32,116 --> 00:36:34,000 There's a will, there's a way, my friend. 663 00:36:34,330 --> 00:36:36,250 We used to sit down and we'd talk. 664 00:36:36,283 --> 00:36:38,316 Either we'd go to those tables over there 665 00:36:38,350 --> 00:36:41,266 and get away from people and we'd discuss... 666 00:36:41,300 --> 00:36:43,333 how to murder people. 667 00:36:43,366 --> 00:36:45,366 KUKLINSKI: "You know, I just got a few problems 668 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,266 "I want to dispose of, I have some rats 669 00:36:47,300 --> 00:36:49,116 I want to get rid of." POLIFRONE: Yeah. 670 00:36:49,150 --> 00:36:50,350 The only fuckin' thing I don't understand-- 671 00:36:50,383 --> 00:36:52,100 Don't you use a fuckin' piece of iron 672 00:36:52,133 --> 00:36:53,266 to get rid of these fuckin' people? 673 00:36:53,300 --> 00:36:54,350 You use this fuckin' cyanide? 674 00:36:54,383 --> 00:36:56,116 Try to be messy. 675 00:36:56,150 --> 00:36:58,166 You do it nice and calm. 676 00:36:58,200 --> 00:36:59,350 It became apparent 677 00:36:59,383 --> 00:37:01,383 at later points in the investigation 678 00:37:01,416 --> 00:37:04,830 that Mr. Kuklinski fully intended 679 00:37:04,116 --> 00:37:07,333 on murdering Dominick Polifrone in addition to 680 00:37:07,366 --> 00:37:10,166 the victims that were being discussed at the time 681 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,416 they were having these tape-recorded conversations. 682 00:37:12,450 --> 00:37:15,416 So he could pretty much tell Dominick Polifrone anything 683 00:37:15,450 --> 00:37:18,383 because he knew shortly that he had plans 684 00:37:18,416 --> 00:37:20,483 for Mr. Polifrone, too. 685 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:22,483 KUKLINSKI: You put that stuff in a mist, 686 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,000 you spray it in somebody's face, 687 00:37:25,330 --> 00:37:26,483 and they go to sleep. 688 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,416 No shit! Long as he's dead. That's the bottom line. 689 00:37:29,450 --> 00:37:31,416 No, that's the thing, isn't it, no matter how 690 00:37:31,450 --> 00:37:33,150 it was done; I mean, I know guys that went 691 00:37:33,183 --> 00:37:35,166 to sleep and never woke up again, you know. 692 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:36,383 Heh heh heh! 693 00:37:36,416 --> 00:37:39,116 POLIFRONE: He says he had one guy, 694 00:37:39,150 --> 00:37:40,350 he went and get a hamburger. 695 00:37:40,383 --> 00:37:43,350 They'd come back and he'd put the cyanide on his hamburger. 696 00:37:43,383 --> 00:37:46,266 And we're sitting down and he's telling me. 697 00:37:46,300 --> 00:37:48,350 He says, "You wouldn't believe it," he says, "I'm waiting for 698 00:37:48,383 --> 00:37:51,150 this guy to keel over," he says because once you eat cyanide, 699 00:37:51,183 --> 00:37:54,500 usually it would-- you'd roll over and that's it. 700 00:37:54,830 --> 00:37:57,500 He says, "This guy had the constitution of a fuckin' bull." 701 00:37:57,830 --> 00:37:59,660 He says, "You wouldn't believe it." 702 00:37:59,100 --> 00:38:00,216 He says, "He wouldn't die!" 703 00:38:00,250 --> 00:38:01,450 And we're both laughing about this, and I'm saying 704 00:38:01,483 --> 00:38:03,466 in the back of my mind, I said, "Holy God." 705 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,200 I said, "Look at this." 706 00:38:05,233 --> 00:38:08,000 I said, "What kind of person is this?" 707 00:38:08,330 --> 00:38:10,450 I said to myself right there, I said, 708 00:38:10,483 --> 00:38:12,433 "You better cover your butt," 709 00:38:12,466 --> 00:38:15,166 I said, "because you just don't know with this guy." 710 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,250 And he'd be kidding about it and I'd be laughing. 711 00:38:17,283 --> 00:38:21,330 In the back of my mind, I'm saying, "This is the devil. 712 00:38:21,660 --> 00:38:23,466 No question about it. This is the devil." 713 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,300 [Police radio chatter] 714 00:38:28,466 --> 00:38:31,450 NARRATOR: On December 17, 1986, 715 00:38:31,483 --> 00:38:35,660 the Special Task Force set up a roadblock 716 00:38:35,100 --> 00:38:37,383 and arrested Richard Kuklinski outside his home 717 00:38:37,416 --> 00:38:39,350 in Dumont, New Jersey. 718 00:38:39,383 --> 00:38:42,100 They felt they had all the evidence they needed 719 00:38:42,133 --> 00:38:44,350 for a conviction. 720 00:38:44,383 --> 00:38:48,100 KANE: The whole road was blocked off for cops. 721 00:38:48,133 --> 00:38:52,830 Local police, state police, 722 00:38:52,116 --> 00:38:55,350 Division of Criminal Justice investigators, 723 00:38:55,383 --> 00:38:58,133 county personnel. 724 00:38:58,166 --> 00:39:02,133 There was no place for him to go, so he stopped his car. 725 00:39:02,166 --> 00:39:05,400 He was told to get out of the car, 726 00:39:05,433 --> 00:39:08,233 and he did not. 727 00:39:09,416 --> 00:39:13,150 So he was, um... 728 00:39:13,183 --> 00:39:16,400 taken out of the car, 729 00:39:16,433 --> 00:39:19,400 and he was placed 730 00:39:19,433 --> 00:39:23,366 face-down on the street... 731 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,466 in a position where we thought we were safe. 732 00:39:29,166 --> 00:39:32,000 And then I handcuffed him. 733 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,150 That guy's big. 734 00:39:35,183 --> 00:39:39,150 I did everything I could to get one click on the handcuffs, 735 00:39:39,183 --> 00:39:43,150 and later on, I tried to put leg irons on him 736 00:39:43,183 --> 00:39:45,416 and there's no way they would go on. 737 00:39:45,450 --> 00:39:48,116 They just wouldn't go on. 738 00:39:48,150 --> 00:39:50,160 Law enforcement authorities 739 00:39:50,500 --> 00:39:51,350 have arrested one of the most 740 00:39:51,383 --> 00:39:53,200 notorious contract killers 741 00:39:53,233 --> 00:39:54,416 in state history. 742 00:39:54,450 --> 00:39:58,166 A self-employed Bergen County man is behind bars, charged 743 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,183 with 5 murders, and prosecutors are investigating 744 00:40:01,216 --> 00:40:03,300 his involvement in dozens more. 745 00:40:03,333 --> 00:40:06,330 This is unwarranted, 746 00:40:06,660 --> 00:40:08,216 unnecessary. 747 00:40:08,250 --> 00:40:10,400 These guys watch too many movies. 748 00:40:10,433 --> 00:40:14,150 He is such a cold-blooded killer they call him "The Iceman." 749 00:40:14,183 --> 00:40:16,150 After being convicted of two murders, 750 00:40:16,183 --> 00:40:18,500 he confessed to two others in court today. 751 00:40:18,830 --> 00:40:21,416 I shot George Malliband 5 times 752 00:40:21,450 --> 00:40:23,166 and Louis Masgay 753 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,160 on July 1, 1981. 754 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,416 I, uh, shot him once in the back of the head. 755 00:40:31,450 --> 00:40:33,416 NARRATOR: When the judge asked him why 756 00:40:33,450 --> 00:40:36,466 he had killed the two men, Kuklinski replied... 757 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,660 It was due to business. 758 00:40:39,100 --> 00:40:42,166 NARRATOR: Dominick Polifrone's tapes had nailed Kuklinski, 759 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,830 but in court, The Iceman greeted the undercover cop with a smile. 760 00:40:46,116 --> 00:40:48,830 How are you, man? Good. 761 00:40:48,116 --> 00:40:49,350 WOMAN: He seemed to be quite cheery 762 00:40:49,383 --> 00:40:51,133 about saying hello to you. 763 00:40:51,166 --> 00:40:53,366 Well, I reciprocated. 764 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,366 The only thing is, I'm going home 765 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,433 and he's going to a different environment at the present time. 766 00:41:06,830 --> 00:41:08,383 BARBARA KUKLINSKI: It wasn't real to us. 767 00:41:08,416 --> 00:41:11,100 We just had a hard time dealing 768 00:41:11,133 --> 00:41:13,366 with what was in the press, 769 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:17,000 and I kept saying, "No way" and "I don't believe it" and then, 770 00:41:17,330 --> 00:41:20,150 when I actually heard his voice, you know, in court, 771 00:41:20,183 --> 00:41:23,383 it was very hard to believe that he talked like that. 772 00:41:23,416 --> 00:41:26,330 It was very, very difficult to believe. 773 00:41:26,660 --> 00:41:28,330 KUKLINSKI, ON TAPE: I've done it always. 774 00:41:28,660 --> 00:41:30,116 As far as you've known or heard, 775 00:41:30,150 --> 00:41:32,316 there isn't too many things I haven't tried. 776 00:41:32,350 --> 00:41:35,183 No matter how it was done, I mean, I know guys that went 777 00:41:35,216 --> 00:41:37,150 to sleep and never woke up again, I mean, you know. 778 00:41:37,183 --> 00:41:39,300 POLIFRONE, ON TAPE: Heh heh heh heh! 779 00:41:39,333 --> 00:41:43,660 CARROLL: The consensus of... 780 00:41:43,100 --> 00:41:45,400 the federal, state, county, 781 00:41:45,433 --> 00:41:48,830 and local law enforcement agencies that were involved 782 00:41:48,116 --> 00:41:50,166 in this investigation 783 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,830 is that Richard Kuklinski is one of the most dangerous criminals 784 00:41:54,116 --> 00:41:57,150 we have ever come across in this state. 785 00:41:57,183 --> 00:42:00,166 Further, it's our feeling that 786 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,166 he is such a diabolical, 787 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,416 methodical type of killer 788 00:42:05,450 --> 00:42:08,660 that it's very possible 789 00:42:08,100 --> 00:42:11,150 that, when all is said and done, we still may never know 790 00:42:11,183 --> 00:42:14,433 how many people he has actually killed. 791 00:42:14,466 --> 00:42:18,416 What Richard has been accused of and found guilty of 792 00:42:18,450 --> 00:42:21,416 and spoke to you about 793 00:42:21,450 --> 00:42:25,166 goes against God and man. 794 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:29,000 I have...very strong feelings. 795 00:42:29,330 --> 00:42:31,333 I am totally anti-violence. 796 00:42:31,366 --> 00:42:35,500 I mean--and as are my children. 797 00:42:35,830 --> 00:42:37,316 And, um, 798 00:42:37,350 --> 00:42:40,266 I can't make those wrongs right. 799 00:42:40,300 --> 00:42:44,150 I can't make them right in my own mind. 800 00:42:48,333 --> 00:42:52,433 We are Richard Kuklinski's family, 801 00:42:52,466 --> 00:42:57,830 and we aren't ourselves anymore. 802 00:42:57,116 --> 00:43:00,433 We're "Richard Kuklinski's family." 803 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,250 KUKLINSKI: I've never felt sorry for anything I've done 804 00:43:08,283 --> 00:43:11,233 other than hurting my family. 805 00:43:11,266 --> 00:43:15,660 The only thing I feel sorry for. 806 00:43:19,483 --> 00:43:22,233 [Sighs] I'm not looking for forgiveness 807 00:43:22,266 --> 00:43:25,100 and I'm not repenting. 808 00:43:31,283 --> 00:43:34,266 [Sighs] No, I'm wrong. 809 00:43:34,300 --> 00:43:36,350 [Sniffles] 810 00:43:38,300 --> 00:43:40,483 I am wrong. 811 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,830 I do want my family to forgive me. 812 00:43:45,266 --> 00:43:48,000 Oh, boy. 813 00:43:48,330 --> 00:43:50,250 [Clicks teeth] 814 00:43:50,283 --> 00:43:53,333 I ain't gonna make this one. 815 00:43:56,300 --> 00:43:59,116 Oh, shit. 816 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:06,830 This would never be me. This...would not be me. 817 00:44:10,316 --> 00:44:14,660 [Voice cracks] I feel for my family. 818 00:44:24,500 --> 00:44:26,660 Whew. 819 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,350 You see The Iceman crying. 820 00:44:34,500 --> 00:44:37,100 Not very macho... 821 00:44:40,330 --> 00:44:43,350 but I've hurt... 822 00:44:46,283 --> 00:44:51,830 people that mean... everything to me. 823 00:44:58,830 --> 00:45:03,100 But the only people that mean anything to me.